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Amnesty - Printable Version

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Amnesty - HEM - 04-30-2013

I want to propose a policy of amnesty and pardon for all those who support Milograd's reign, unless there was evidence that helped him plan the actual event.


Amnesty - tsunamy - 04-30-2013

... is this the type of thing that should be seconded?


Amnesty - Hileville - 04-30-2013

I would say no on this.
 
If they participated in this and were a citizen at the time then they are going to be brought on charges.  If they weren't than they shouldn't be.


Amnesty - HEM - 04-30-2013

I'm proposing it as a Assemblyman, not ordering it as a member of the judiciary.
 
As a region we need to heal. Yeah, it might make us feel good to haul tons of non-forumers through the courts, and make it impossible for them to ever get involved, but I don't think it's for the best.
 
Let's try to get these "revolutionaries" apart of our culture, apart of our region, and help them become apart of this amazing region. Let's give a second chance.


Amnesty - Antariel - 04-30-2013

For it, in a personal capacity.


Amnesty - tsunamy - 04-30-2013

I realize things are still new ... but people are still going on about how the RMB is going to die and how the off site forums are all that matters.
 
I think it's important to heal and walk of walk of allowing dissent as oppose to the just talking about it. And maybe we'll get some more activity out of the whole thing.


Amnesty - Sparaxis - 04-30-2013

Doesn't amnesty need to be unconditional?

Amnesty - Kris Kringle - 04-30-2013

The thing is that this incident wasn't just dissent or a protest. It was a coup and a violent one. Those who committed treason (and that means having participated in the illegitimate government) must answer to the People and the courts of The South Pacific. That is justice under law.


Amnesty - Belschaft - 04-30-2013

My personal inclination is that a distinction can and should be made between those who endorsed Milograd and those who actively supported him, such as 'citizens' on his forum.


Amnesty - Sandaoguo - 04-30-2013

I'm strongly against this. While it's not necessary to go after them in the courts, amnesty entails regaining citizenship, and thus being in the assembly. Few productive people joined Milograd, so "healing" isn't really dependent on forgiving them. We can bar them from citizenship, try them if the leadership wants, and not be any less off than we are now.


Amnesty - HEM - 04-30-2013

Quote:My personal inclination is that a distinction can and should be made between those who endorsed Milograd and those who actively supported him, such as 'citizens' on his forum.
 
I agree that current citizens may need to be treated different than non-forum members.


Amnesty - Karpathos - 04-30-2013

I'm for this. Seconded. Why persecute (no typo) people for their beliefs?


Amnesty - Belschaft - 04-30-2013

I have a fairly comprehensive list of those nations involved in some capacity, ranging from participation in his forum, membership of his 'inner circle', supporting him actively on the NS forums, and so forth.
 
I'll be drawing up a list from that of people I believe should be excluded from any amnesty.


Amnesty - Karpathos - 04-30-2013

Did you make sure to get pitch-forks and torches for the whole class, Belschaft?


Amnesty - Belschaft - 04-30-2013

Just enough for your Karp. I won't miss you when you're gone.


Amnesty - Eluvatar - 04-30-2013

I would urge that we make clear we will not punish or prosecute anyone who had not been a Citizen of the South Pacific when Milograd tore down the flag for supporting Milograd. Many of them just came to support something that looked interesting: if we can get them interested in the actual TSP instead, I would argue TSP benefits. Few of them practiced any kind of subterfuge after all.As to those who betrayed the Covenant they agreed to when they accepted the provisions of the Charter, I have no such strong opinion in favor of amnesty. Neither however would I argue against it.

Amnesty - Karpathos - 05-01-2013

Quote:Just enough for your Karp. I won't miss you when you're gone.
You sound like Karp's ex....boy was she wrong.


Amnesty - Alv - 05-01-2013

I'd be for amnesty for non citizens and encourage them to get involved. The higher ups however i'd be against it.


Amnesty - Belschaft - 05-01-2013

I'd like us to be as welcoming and forgiving as possible, but certain individuals who played central roles in the coup are continued security threats.


Amnesty - Sovreignry - 05-01-2013

I'm going to have to agree with Bel here. While we should be welcoming, from what I hear it's what The South Pacific is known for, we cannot allow known security risks the ability to possibly return to a position of power.

Amnesty - Awesomiasa - 05-01-2013

Quote:I'm going to have to agree with Bel here. While we should be welcoming, from what I hear it's what The South Pacific is known for, we cannot allow known security risks the ability to possibly return to a position of power.
 
Agreed


Amnesty - Kris Kringle - 05-01-2013

I think this should be treated as any instance of treason. Citizens who actively participated in the coup broke their commitment and this should be tried in a court of law, treated with all guarantees of due process but with the understanding that amnesty on them would be a potential security threat. Let's not confuse free speech with leniency before criminal activities.

Amnesty - karatengisa - 05-01-2013

Quote:I think this should be treated as any instance of treason. Citizens who actively participated in the coup broke their commitment and this should be tried in a court of law, treated with all guarantees of due process but with the understanding that amnesty on them would be a potential security threat. Let's not confuse free speech with leniency before criminal activities.
Yes, those who participated in the coup  should face the same charges a Milo/Carta for treason and be put on trial.


Amnesty - Belschaft - 05-01-2013

The more I consider this, the more I find myself inclining to leniency. I would suggest that only extant TSP citizens be pursued for this, and that so long as they come into compliance with the law all other participants be allowed to remain in TSP should they wish.
 
To my knowledge, the following could be prosecuted for Treason under such a policy;
 
Milograd, aka Carta
Lint Roller, aka Karparthos
Akimond, aka Andreeson
FreeSoc, aka Of The Free Socialist Territories
TheGrimReaper
Warzone Codger
 
[font="helvetica, arial, sans-serif;font-size:14.44444465637207px;"]Even then, that is only [/font]the five who would fall under this policy. I am only certain regarding the first three, as FreeSoc and TheGrimReapers involvement in the coup appears to have been marginal.
 
Edit: Missed Codger off the list.


Amnesty - Warzone Codger - 05-01-2013

Just noting:
 
1. I told Bel about it on IRC. That's how I'm on the list.
 
2. Before I registered I was consulted with Mcma on IRC on whether I should join forums and 'lolspy'.
 
3. When I finally joined the WA, my WA was on B&N. This was observed by everybody on TSP IRC that the time, since I made a big deal of it as you expect Codger do. 
 
4. My citizenship technically should of been removed for inactivity before this whole event . When I was last active, TSP was still on zetaboards. Iron Skyace was also CTEd