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+---- Thread: To any who are interested... (/showthread.php?tid=4378)
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To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
The Holy Empire of Mirabellis is interested in hearing from all those nations in the South Pacific who are interested in such things as good government, efficient government, a functioning constitution that is adhered to as the supreme law of the region.The Holy Empire is interested in hearing from those nations whose citizens are familiar with law, government, political theory, and the application of that theory in the region.Those who feel any of the above applies to them are welcomed to reply here or send a private message to Mirabellis. We are eager to hear from you.
To any who are interested... - Aurellis - 10-28-2003
...umm...
<em class='bbc'>This</em> is outta right field...
Not to intrude, but do you mind if I ask why?
To any who are interested... - G_Mooshoo23 - 10-28-2003
I second Aurellis. Why do you ask that? And what does it all mean?
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
I'm just basically interested in discussing political science stuff in an in-game guise of a political party or something. Is that too terrible?
To any who are interested... - Aurellis - 10-28-2003
No. But, not to be mean, you should have stated that in your original post. Everyone in the SP is jumpy; we've had an interesting history, and we don't want any repeated. I'm not mad...just curious.Sure, go ahead and start your party...but can I bring the music?
To any who are interested... - Fudgie - 10-28-2003
*wakes up from alchohol induced coma* *mental note - don't let LR bring the Everclear*Did I hear party?
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
In game:Mirabellis welcomes those interested. We wish to build a coalition of nations interested in the same goals that we are, and working to see that those goals and ideals are reached in the South Pacific through 'legitimate' and 'democratic' means.A question we would like to submit for consideration is the following:Francos Spain has been the topic of late, and we'd like to know what you all think of the idea that the Pacific Region has become in practice a state as envisioned by Rousseau in 'The Social Contract'.He is the 'shepherd' of the public and styles himself as the guardian of the public's will. Those who don't conform are not voicing a dissent, but are instead choosing to break away from the body politic of the Pacific, and thus, Francos Spain ejects them in order to keep the budy politic healthy.Please, join in the discussion.
To any who are interested... - G_Mooshoo23 - 10-28-2003
Screw the discussion, just point me in the direction of the party. I've been feeling a little blue and was going to ask LR if I could borrow one of her lampshades.
To any who are interested... - Aurellis - 10-28-2003
Well, that would fit since he pitched a fit when the bug hit and he couldn't do jack to protect his endorsements. He believes, IMO, that he is the only one fit to guide the flock, and anyone else is just a simple sheep.Sorry I couldn't go deeper; I've never read that book.
To any who are interested... - G_Mooshoo23 - 10-28-2003
Which book are you talking about? El Bible? My favorite french book? Or The Odyssey? Or The Iliad? Or Thucydides? I can go on and on forever and a day with all the possible books, so next time be specific or I'll bite your head off!!!Thank you
To any who are interested... - Slackervania - 10-28-2003
Quote:He is the 'shepherd' of the public and styles himself as the guardian of the public's will. Those who don't conform are not voicing a dissent, but are instead choosing to break away from the body politic of the Pacific, and thus, Francos Spain ejects them in order to keep the budy politic healthy.Well, ifI'm recalling correctly (which I may not be, it's been a long day), The Social Contract also stated that such a self-styled shepherd could only maintain power if the majority of the populace approved of his methods, which is clearly not the case here. Those who try to voice dissent are promptly ejected, not for the health of the body politic but rather in order to maintain his own power. Hundreds have been kicked out of their homes because of Tinpot's love of his own power. He is in no way looking out for the welfare of the people.
To any who are interested... - Guest - 10-28-2003
*places a lampshade on Michu*well honestly it seems to be run more as a police state, with the KGB informing, and those that inform the Government of dissenters get promotions, after so many then you are allowed to be part of the "inner circle".Not a very free society and not very conductive to new nations with view points that go against the norm. of FS's thinking.and with the powers to be supporting him in his rule, it makes one wonder who he is sleeping with.
To any who are interested... - G_Mooshoo23 - 10-28-2003
Thanks LR ^_^ Nobody has told me what book that's from, so now I'm gonna have to read Thucydides to find out if it's in there!
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
Allow me to quote myself for G_mooshoo23's benefit.
Quote:Francos Spain has been the topic of late, and we'd like to know what you all think of the idea that the Pacific Region has become in practice a state as envisioned by Rousseau in <strong class='bbc'>'The Social Contract'</strong>.Slacker makes a good point, but I would submit that FS fits in as Rousseau's legislator who is empowered to mold the citizenry into whatever is necessary to comform to the public will. The public will is not so much a general expression of the majority as it is what is handed down from the legislator. And as far as the majority is concerned in the Pacific, yes, FS has few endorsements compared to the size of the population of the region, but it's also clear that if all 4000+ nations joined the UN and endorsed another candidate, we wouldn't see FS in power. So at least according to Rousseau, FS is representing some kind of general wiil.
To any who are interested... - Aurellis - 10-28-2003
Well, FS is all that some of these people know. And remember, he's put his own spin on history so as to paint himself as the good guy. That's affecting their minds, too.
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
Quote:Well, FS is all that some of these people know. And remember, he's put his own spin on history so as to paint himself as the good guy. That's affecting their minds, too.That's the job of Rousseau's legislator. FS is keeping out impurity from the collective consciousness of the Pacific.
The important thing to remember about Rousseau's 'Social Contract' is that to most political theorists, such a system of government would have to lead to some kind of totalitarian dictatorship, which is just what we are seeing in the Pacific at the moment.
To any who are interested... - Slackervania - 10-28-2003
As long as will of the people==no will/apathy on the part of the majority
To any who are interested... - G_Mooshoo23 - 10-28-2003
Quote:Allow me to quote myself for G_mooshoo23's benefit.
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >Â
Francos Spain has been the topic of late, and we'd like to know what you all think of the idea that the Pacific Region has become in practice a state as envisioned by Rousseau in 'The Social Contract'.
</blockquote>
I've read Rousseau before and I know who he is. If someone had said that a looooooooooooooooong time ago that would have put my mind at ease so I could sleep so I don't fall asleep during first period.
-Michu
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
Michu, I did say what text I was referring to in the original post. Go up and reread.
Slacker, but isn't no will/apathy really just another form of the general will? Look at Nixon. During the Vietnam War, there was a vocal minority (the Pacific Army for instance) sitting outside the White House and making a lot of noise. One could say that the rest of the nation was apathetic because it didn't seem to care one way or another. But when Nixon went on TV and called for the support of the Silent Majority, he got it.We can't really say that the majority is corrupt just because they are 'apathetic', can we? Their will seems to be to let FS remain in power, for good or bad.
To any who are interested... - Guest - 10-28-2003
FS is good, we do have to give him credit there, but even the good ones fall.One day it will be my turn, I know this as does everyone here, but I think that when you step back and look at it from a logical point of view, the New Nations know nothing but FS and his "Government", so they think that they are natives and that all of the NS world works this way.It would be like a baby born in an extreme pot. situation, if rasied that way and knowing nothing eles, that child grows into thinking that the whole world it that way.Sucks eggs big time, but it is the normal thing that I seem to be facing these days with new nations contacting me.Asking if the SP is anything like the Pacific.
To any who are interested... - Fudgie - 10-28-2003
Having a nation in both the SP and the Pac, I think I can answer that no, they are nothing alike.LR, you rule fairly and justly - people have free speech and can gain endorsements as they please.FS rules with an iron fist, allows no dissent and limits what each nation can achieve with the threat of booting.I don't think there's a comparison.
To any who are interested... - Guest - 10-28-2003
Well see that is what I mean, if a new nation is created in the Pacific and does not know the game just yet then they think it is FS's way that is all over the NS World, so not only are we fighting a stigma as a Pacific Region, but an unfair image from new nations that know no better, then there is Harkinnen who is making false claims all over the place, also confusing the New Nations, so one of a few things happen, to the new nations.1. They join the UN, endorse a few nations get over 15 and booted from the Pacific with no warning, waking up in the RR, wonders what is happening.2. They contact K and ask a few questions.3. They decide to try clicking on a few of the things that they have seen on the left side of their screen, and somehow find the South Pacific.4. They contact the Delegate of the Region (me at this time) and ask questions, they get their answers and either create their own region, stay in the RR, or move to another Pacific Region. (Although I think the SP is the best place, I am honest with them and let them know about all of the Pacific Regions, giving them the freedom of choice)5. or worst of all, they give up and leave NS, letting their New Nations get deleted.So in a way if FS set out to ruin the game for everyone he has done so in a brillant move, because NS is now getting a bad rep., even on the net word of mouth is a good thing or a bad thing. Wish the Moderators would wake up to that fact, but then Neutered was only saying something against what he saw as wrong, so can we truly hold that against him, the only thing I can see wrong with it was the strong arm tactics employed by Neutered.Sorry if this seems disjointed, but I have so many thoughts running through my mind right now
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
Moving from the abstract theory to the concrete is good.
Question 2: Where does sovereignty begin and end in the NS world?(Sovereignty is defined in this case as an entity having a monopoly of the use of force within a given territory.)
To any who are interested... - Guest - 10-28-2003
I think that within the NS World sovereignty begins and ends with the person.The Delegate of the Region/Founder, has the ability to ban nations that they see as unfit to be in their region.The Pacific Regions take it futher in the fact that we can not password protect the region so we can only ban nations from the region and change the Fact Book entry.So really the sovereignty of the Region comes about by the individual person, meaning that only one person has control in the game to enforce their laws.We here in the South Pacific take it futher still, because of a Delegate (again me at this time) sees fit to let others help in making the decisions concering the Region in General, not taking it upon myslef entirely to say that it is my way or the RR.I don't mean this in a nasty way but it is the truth, we all work hard and make the decisions together because we want too, I know that if not for working with everyone then I would be removed from the Seat, but I feel that chaos in one of the Pacific Regions is not something that is conductive to anyone, and being the type of person that I am, I would rather see people working together than always having to look over my shoulder and hope to keep the "ulimate" power of the Delegates Seat.
To any who are interested... - Mirabellis - 10-28-2003
So the delegate has ultimate sovereignty, given by the general population of nations, and in the SP's case, the delegate chooses to delegate some of that power to the cabinet?