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J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-13-2012

J-#3 Three Warnings Law is very old, and deals with several matters. However, the majority of these I feel are more properly the duty of forum moderation to deal with under the in built warnings system, rather than offences to be dealt with by the regional government. Similarly, certain offences under J-#4 are more properly matters for forum administration.



The absence of any appeals system in regards to J-#3 is also something that has annoyed me in the past. I am of the opinion that we should therefore alter in such ways as to more effective, and sensible, with a clear delineation between what is a matter for the Justice system - in J-#3 - and for forum administration - in J-#4.



At present J-#3 sets out the following offences;



Quote:[*:27dm9m7b]Obscenity (Language): any excessive cursing, sexual content, or otherwise tasteless remarks unsuitable for minors is subject to a warning.





[*:27dm9m7b]Spamming: disturbing regular chatter with excessive spamming, including but not limited to the re-posting of messages, extremely off-topic posting, excessive advertisements for another region, etc.





[*:27dm9m7b]Slander/Libel (Defamation): untrue statements which are intended to tarnish (or have the practical effect of tarnishing) the reputation of another user





[*:27dm9m7b]Abuse: language or statements intended to demean another player that are NOT RP.





[*:27dm9m7b]Harassment: The repeated, aggressive abuse of another nation. The abuse is sustained over a period of time, e.g. telling a nation that they suck, or calling them an otherwise inane name several times a day over several days.





[*:27dm9m7b]Trolling/Flamebaiting: As per the NationStates rules.
Whilst J-#4 sets out the following;



Quote:[*:27dm9m7b]The following shall be considered Minor Felonies.

[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the Third Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Defamation in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Fraud in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Posting Obscene Content



[*:27dm9m7b]Spamming



[*:27dm9m7b]The following shall be considered Major Felonies:

[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Defamation in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Fraud in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Espionage



[*:27dm9m7b]Puppeting



[*:27dm9m7b]Obscene Spamming



[*:27dm9m7b]Perverting the Course of Justice



[*:27dm9m7b]Treason[/list]
I believe these should be re-split into the following two categories;



<strong class='bbc'>Criminal Offences - Judicial Matters (J-#4)</strong>

[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Assault in the Third Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Defamation in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Defamation in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Fraud in the First Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Fraud in the Second Degree



[*:27dm9m7b]Espionage



[*:27dm9m7b]Puppeting



[*:27dm9m7b]Perverting the Course of Justice



[*:27dm9m7b]Treason

<strong class='bbc'>Forum Offences - Administration Matters (J-#3)</strong>

[*:27dm9m7b]Obscenity



[*:27dm9m7b]Spamming



[*:27dm9m7b]Abuse



[*:27dm9m7b]Harrasment



[*:27dm9m7b]Trolling/Flaming



[*:27dm9m7b]DDOS, etc



I haven't drafted anything as I want to get input first, but I think this is a rather simple and sensible reform. For obvious reasons, forum moderation has to be able to respond promptly to certain types of behaviour - such as, for example, porn spamming or DDOS attacks - and these are not judicial matters. They are not in game, criminal matters, but rather out of game actions that are more appropriately dealt with as such.



I will be aiming to rewrite 3WL to make use of the reports system, and empower the administration team to take such action as necessary in such cases.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Rebel-topia - 12-13-2012

But some of that covers the boards AND the RMB, which the later IS in-game. So I think if its split, we need to have in-game offenses and forum offenses...

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-13-2012

Hmm... that is a valid point. Perhaps, just as forum administration would be empowered to take action against obscene behaviour, trolling, flambating, etc, on the board, the delegate could be empowered to do so on the RMB?Though, strictly speaking, in those cases it should be reported via a GHR as such is a matter for site administration.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Rebel-topia - 12-13-2012

Quote:The absence of any appeals system in regards to J-#3 is also something that has annoyed me in the past.
This bothers me, also.

Maybe we give admin some power to clean spam and such. I think dealing with "Obscenity (Language), Slander/Libel (Defamation), Abuse, Harassment, Trolling/Flamebaiting" within NS and on these forums needs to be handled by the MoJ. Cause 99% of the time, it'll be one member against another, and thats not something an admin can take care of.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-13-2012

Quote:<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Belschaft">The absence of any appeals system in regards to J-#3 is also something that has annoyed me in the past.
This bothers me, also.

Maybe we give admin some power to clean spam and such. I think dealing with "Obscenity (Language), Slander/Libel (Defamation), Abuse, Harassment, Trolling/Flamebaiting" within NS and on these forums needs to be handled by the MoJ. Cause 99% of the time, it'll be one member against another, and thats not something an admin can take care of.
</blockquote>I left Defamation under judicial in my re-categorization, but I don't see how the others fall under that. Obscenity for example - be it porn spam, gratuitous swearing, etc - is clearly not a matter for the justice system. Similarly, if one player is harassing another, that's not a matter for trial, but something where forum admin needs to be able to say 'Stop that, right now. If you do not, you will be banned.' - it's a question of the separation of peoples actions as players, and as individuals. If I coup the region, I'm doing that as a player - and should be tried by my fellow players. If I start posting obscene comments about someone else, or insulting them constantly, I'm not doing that as a player.

RP has the separation of IC and OOC. We need the same, but separating our actions 'In Game' and 'Out of Game'.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Southern Bellz - 12-14-2012

might be misunderstanding something oops

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Michu - 12-14-2012

While I agree that the government should not decide what people say, in my understanding of this it's not about controlling what people say but rather the intensity with which it is being said. There are young players (and I was one of them back in the day), and my parents would never have let me continue if they thought people were swearing here. And citizens outright attacking each other simply sets a bad tone for the whole region. Some sort of standard for conduct in communication should be upheld.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Southern Bellz - 12-14-2012

Okay, after looking at this, my issue is with the 3WL and not what Bel has proposed.I do still believe TSP government should not be involved with speech moderation at all. I think any standard for conduct needs to be as lax as possible. While Michu might think cursing is not the proper way to conduct herself, she is welcome to not curse. I, on the other hand, do not think there is anything wrong with cursing, with the exception of slurs. Now, should our government get in the business of saying who is right? I think lines get crossed vary from person to person, and its why I think most things are a judical issue.I would like to see the limits on speech in 3WL get reduced, and the ability of the moderators to tackle issues like porn spam (legally and swiftly) to increase.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-14-2012

I'm not suggesting that the government, or that that matter moderation, should in any way limit or moderate speech. However, there are acceptable limits; use of swearing is acceptable. Profanity filled posts directed at other people are not.More broadly however, I simply think we need to recognize that certain behaviour is both not acceptable and not for the justice system to deal with. I'm talking about things like porn spam, but also the behaviour of players like Govinda. TSP possess a fairly laid back community, but to maintain that we need to set limits. If someone is being harassed - and I do not mean 'He keeps saying my ideas are stupid' - we need to be able to deal with it. Similarly, if someone is being provocative with the specific intent to anger people, that needs to be dealt with.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Hileville - 12-14-2012

Why don't we just add a stipulation all violations of the ToS and ToU shall be handled by administration as that is what will be done anyway and it covers most of what you have said.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-14-2012

What, and just scrap J-#3? That would be easier.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Southern Bellz - 12-14-2012

I'm down for that

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Belschaft - 12-14-2012

That would be easier, yeah. Some kind of guidelines for each warning level may be a good idea in such case.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - God-Emperor - 12-14-2012

Bear in mind all moderators and administrators can and should edit out most of what is currently bein' discussed here. That said, I'm all for deregulation.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Hileville - 12-14-2012

The terms of Use and Service including limitations to the following:
Quote:Content that infringes upon any rights (including, but not limited to, copyrights and trademarks)
Abusive, threatening, defamatory, racist, or obscene Content
Viruses or any other harmful computer software
False information or libel
Spam, chain letters, or pyramid schemes
Gambling or Illicit drugs
Terrorism
Hacking or cheating for internet/online games
Warez, Roms, CD-Keys, Cracks, Passwords, or Serial Numbers
Pornography, nudity, or sexual material of any kind
Excessive profanity
Content that is invasive of privacy or impersonation of any person/entity
Hacking materials or information.
The majority of the 3WL covers these items. Under the IF forums this was used to determine when someone gets kicked out of the region. To my knowledge the admin staff didn't use the boards default warning system very much. Now that we are on ZB I think we can use this and use it properly. I actually like TNP's rules as far as warnings go.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Rebel-topia - 12-14-2012

Quote:... I actually like TNP's rules as far as warnings go.
Quote, Hile?

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Hileville - 12-14-2012

Quote:When a violation of TOS, TOU, or other forum rules occurs, a warning may be issued to a member's account. Warnings are set in 20% intervals, and each comes with a pre-determined sentence. Warnings issued will not be removed except by majority vote of the moderation team, or in special circumstances in which case administration reserves the right to change warning levels as needed.

Moderation levels:

20% warning - 5 hour mod preview
40% - 1 day mod preview
60% - 5 hour post suspension, 3 day mod preview
80% - 3 day post suspension, 1 week mod preview
100% - 1 week post suspension, indefinite mod preview

And should, after 100%, TOU, TOS, or forum rules violations continue, an IP ban will be enforced.


J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Rebel-topia - 12-14-2012

I like that, actually. But I am still for defamation and such acts toward another player be handled by the MoJ. Even though its against zeta rules, its something the admins shouldnt address, imo.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Milograd - 12-14-2012

I'm cool with the ToS rule.EDIT: Hey, that rhymes!

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Antariel - 01-01-2013

Are we moving to vote?

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Hileville - 01-04-2013

I think Bel needs to actually draft his changes first.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Hileville - 02-06-2013

I would ask that we hold off on this until a decision is made on whether or not to move and combine our two forums.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Topid - 02-07-2013

Dooodooodooo, this got my attention. Admins/mods here should have the authority to ban/warn people for what they do here, I agree with that, but it makes sense to me that there also be a law about it as part of our regional government. That way if someone crosses the line they have not only been forum-banned, but they have done something wrong government-wise to allow the delegate to ban them from the region (if it was bad enough the delegate wants to).

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - God-Emperor - 02-07-2013

It shouldn't be up to the delegate. It should be up to the legal system. If someone violate the law on the RMB, they should be banned from the region. If someone violates the law on the forum, they should be banned from the forum. One shouldn't result in the other, unless on affects the other.

J-#3, J-#4 and Forum Administration - Rebel-topia - 02-11-2013

I disagree. If someone is banned from the region, thats the region in game and out.