That is how it is in a nutshell, because if we did not have such good Nations in the SP willing and able to pick up things then we would be as bad as the Pacific, and that is not what we want.Also on an aside note, the Government was formed before I took the Seat, so in all honesty I did not do that much work for it, all I did was offer to be the Delegate and let things go the way that they wanted it to go.I promised to abide by what they had set forth and I have kept my word on that one, and you know the best part to it all is the fact that the South Pacific Natios feel that I am doing a good enough job that they let me stay in the Seat.Thank you to Everyone that works here and in the game to help keep the peace.
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I wrote up a long response to this...but I opted to destroy it for reasons that largely lie with the region. Perhaps, you'd care to read Thomas Hobbes' "Leviathan" and couple it with the Social Contract...as well as...some existential theory from Nietzsche and Sartre (particularly taking into account personal freedom, accountability, and solitude)...maybe you'll come out with something completely different than I wrote, but probably not. I just opt not to post it. It's probably better that way.
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Quote:I'm just basically interested in discussing political science stuff in an in-game guise of a political party or something. Is that too terrible?
ah. now that i've stopped having a heart attack...l.
yes i am interested. oh mira, be careful about your timing. i think, as aurellis stated, we're all a bit jumpy this week.
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Quote:Asking if the SP is anything like the Pacific.
Well the majority of the population, the active population do show support for him.
currently he has 150 endorsements:
93 of those have been active in the last day or two
16 in the last 3-5 days
7 in the last 6-7
5 for the 7-10 range
14 for the 10 - 15
7 at 16-20 days
6 at 21 - 27
1 at 28 days
those figures were from earlier tonight.
I disagree that we work like FS does. We care, we debate, we allow for freedom. However, I do the things I do for the public good. or what i see as the public good. Difference between our regions is that once a month the public is encouraged to tell me if i'm still performing what what they feel as their best interests.
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Quote:yes i am interested. oh mira, be careful about your timing. i think, as aurellis stated, we're all a bit jumpy this week.
If you want to have a poli si dicusion I would love to join in. The whole reason I came to these boards is because of a love of politics. Figured I might get a chance to go from therory to practical application.
Former Delegate of The South Pacific
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Quote:Slacker, but isn't no will/apathy really just another form of the general will? Look at Nixon. During the Vietnam War, there was a vocal minority (the Pacific Army for instance) sitting outside the White House and making a lot of noise. One could say that the rest of the nation was apathetic because it didn't seem to care one way or another. But when Nixon went on TV and called for the support of the Silent Majority, he got it.
We can't really say that the majority is corrupt just because they are 'apathetic', can we? Their will seems to be to let FS remain in power, for good or bad.
Yes, but the "silent majority" would also "support" anyone in the position. The vast number of them are not in the UN (and thus do not vote one way or the other), or don't have anything to do with the regional government period, as long as they don't get hassled. To bring in a bit of contract law--the lack of an answer to an offer through silence (in this case, the right of Francos to govern) does not imply acceptance of the offered contract.
Also, I don't recall stating that the majority was corrupt.
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In the end, I don't think anything he's done has really been that terrible. We don't like him and thus we invaded. However, people tend to come together in order to avoid living in the natural way, right? They do so in order to keep from the relatively savage manner of living that comes with living outside of a ruler(s) and that ruler can be through religion or government, right? At any rate, they choose a ruler and that ruler may be under any number of styles of government (as we can see). Francos will probably not abuse his people...he'll probably be a fairly noble tyrant...Thespius is an example. He'll just rule them as he thinks best suits them. It is necessary for a ruler, in order to retain his position, to rule in a manner as will foster as much well being for his people as possible (ideally). So, as long as the people are relatively well off then they won't rebel and so long as they're not begging for aid...we didn't need to help them. We dashed in because we didn't believe, apparently, in Francos' style of government. Nations fight one another for such reasons and always have: Competition, diffidence, glory...our reason for the invasion was mostly glory, part competition, and perhaps some preventative diffidence. We invaded because we feel, according to laws of perception, that the peoples of the Pacific are being oppressed. Still, they're not fleeing en masse, are they? They're not screaming out for aid or suffering, really. Francos is a savvy despot. He knows who to "execute" and how to keep his allies and those who aren't threats at his side. There's nothing wrong, I suppose, with the father-knows-best way that he rules. There are plenty of other people that rule that way, most likely, in the NS world. Even the republic which we are under can become tyrannical. Apparently, Francos has done something in the past which made people angry (I'm not familiar with why, but people wouldn't be so eager to oust him if he hadn't a reputation that was poor, right?)So, reputation is an important part of it, too. It ties into what one does and that ties into existentialism's concepts of one's freedom to do what one will, responsibility for actions...and that ties into what we did. However, the destruction of our attempt and the actions taken by mods...the inability of either side to fully understand the other...these point to solitude. What man can truly know another?Those are just some thoughts about it. What makes him different? Nothing, probably...but beyond that...it's much more complex than the Social Contract. I don't know much about the idea of sovereignty in NS, though. It's even been a while since I read S.C.I could take time to organize this more, but...I thought I'd send it off.I hope nobody's terribly offended, but...taken from the school of thought that I generally embrace he's done nothing too devastating. He's just ruling as he normally would and we don't like it. I'd love to see him removed, but still, he's just an arrogant, defensive, father-knows-best dictator...he's not really hurting us and unless the people are crying out to be "freed" then we're just invading much in the manner of Bush's Iraqi Freedom.
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Quote:We don't like him and thus we invaded.
There's a bit more to it than that. This government tends to deal with game type problems instead of RP ones. This can be a fine distinction. Basically what I think this government believes is that players should be allowed to rp who or what they will in peace and quiet, but that they should not interfere with the playing of others. By his super oppressive laws, Francos is stifling the playing atmosphere for the players in his region. This is intolerable in a birthing region as that's where the players get thier toes wet in the game. These poor new nations think that Francos is what the game is, and are turned off. I believe he has the smallest feeder region of them all.
With every player who is turned off by him, the game loses another unique and interesting individual who could have made it more interesting for all. I believe that this is intolerable. He has got to be stopped.
In working for the Pacific, I am working to keep us free as well. Getting target practice if you will. I believe that this region's strength is it's freedom. I believe in the delegacy; not the delegate. I really don't care who is in the seat of the Pacific, so long as they treat thier newbies well. I really don't care who the delegate here is, for much the same region. But woe be tide any who seeks the delegacy here for ill means. They will run up against a tenacious defender in me. May the Mods haver mercy on their souls, for I shall have none.
Quote:Â It is necessary for a ruler, in order to retain his position, to rule in a manner as will foster as much well being for his people as possible (ideally).Â
which he is not doing. Have you seen his laws? If not i'll be happy to post them here. No one can rebel against Francos without massive outside support, his rules are extreme and callous. He banns and rejects for random things; one frind of mine was tossed for saying he ddin't like orange. (not true he lives on orange food :glare: ) Think as a new nation and think about how those rules would make you feel. We fight agaisnt abusive parents in our real lives, I will fight this abusive delegate here.
Quote:Still, they're not fleeing en masse, are they??
Ask LR, she's been recieving many telegrams every day asking if the SP is the same as the Pac. Pathetic. You may have watched our numbers grow recently, many of those are the poor children from the Pac who are looking for a new home.
Many more in that region are lost, not knowing how to move. Recently I've been working to educate them. What was most fabulous on Sunday was how quickly the children of the pacific responded to his lack of power. the regional board lit up. it was beautiful to see.
Francos was brought to power by the greed of the people of the pacific, for that i have no sympathy for them. however, i believe he is kept in power by ignorance.
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((I have a reply for you, Bistmath, largely out of character. I'll send it to your mailbox.))
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Okay i got some sleep and replied.I would like to make it publicaly clear that i was merely stating my own position on the Pacific matter. I have no spite for the people of the south pacific, nor for this topic. i just wanted my position clear so i can refer back to it later.this was not meant to be a slam on anyone!
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Here is a list of all the laws:
Quote:Quote:
Civil Code for Uniform Justice and Order in the Pacific:
The offenses listed below are punishable by banishment to the realms outlying the vast region of the Pacific:
--Civil Disobediance
1001: A declaration of dislike for the Delegate of the Pacific or his policies with intent to subvert the Government.
1002: Insulting or spreading calumny about a member of the Government in public or in telegram.
1003: Frequent posts of an inappropriate subject.
1004: Excessively poor grammar.
1005: Harassment of a fellow Pacifican either in public or by telegram.
1006: Giving your endorsement to a nation with whom you are not familiar personally. (Obviously, all Pacific nations are familiar with the nations that govern them)
1007: Unauthorized use of another nation's flag or other details as your own.
1008: Objectionable nation name, flag, or motto.
--Political Accountability
2001: Expression of dislike for the policies of the Pacific Government or those Governments allied with or declared friendly by the Pacific Government.
2002: Expression of views considered counter to those of the Pacific Government.
2003: I told you before, I don't like Spam!
2004: Resigning from the UN without obtaining authorization from the proper Government ministry.
2005: Failure to become aligned with the Delegate.
--Treason
0001: Seeking more than 15 endorsements.
0002: Being a puppet of a banned nation.
0003: Assisting those seeking more than 15 endorsements.
0004: Belonging to a subversive organization.
See all banned nations at:
<a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index.cgi/page=display_nation/page=region_control/region=the_pacific'>http://www.nationstates.net/cgi-bin/index....ion=the_pacific</a>
*shrug* pretty nasty, eh?
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To add my little sentence.Over the time i have been here, i have noticed the population decrease and increase. over the last few days the population has jumped remarkably, i would like to think it was me, but we all know differently.The reason people are coming here, is because we can have fun, and some serious things as well, but we enjoy what we do, and people notice things like that.We act as fairly as we can, we do not judge abitrarily and we do not ban for silly reasons like having to many endorsements, I, being the point in example.I have been offered places to go, i do have my own region, but funny enough i like here, so here i stay, and to be truthfull i think a lot of those coming in now will stay as well.I forsee this region, even though we all know it is a transfer station for new nations, will once again have the population we can be proud off.And it is all down to YOU the nations of the South Pacific, and the Cabinet members, who were elected by the nations of the South Pacific. So i was right the first time.I just thought i would say this, ( had to get it off my chest, so to speak.)
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Okay, time to end testimonials and move on to Question 3.Is capitalism corrupt? Does capitalism aim to make a profit at the expense of the individual?
Having worked in several casinos I would have to say yes.Their ending in all of it is the bottom line.For instance I worked as a cook in one for 14 months, 2 weeks, and 2 days. On the one night I called in sick, to the point of not being able to hold anything down, the next day I was fired. They state the reason because I supposdly did not call in soon enough. I called them at 6am my shift did not start until 3 pm. I still have the check stubs from that casino where I was putting in over time. I was working over 100 hours every two week period.They would not give me a raise because of the over time, so I was making 6.50 an hour when I started and when I was fired. It did not matter to them that I had over 18 years experience in the field of cooking, at that time.As they like to point out, cooks are easy to replace.so if you are guided by the bottom line then I think that you are corrupt, because the individual does not matter it is the bottom line.
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I should say that yes, capitalism is somewhat corrupt.However, capitalism (right or wrong) is an amoral creature unless we change it to something else. Smith created his inquiry into the wealth of nations and basically saw those who weren't making money as being of little value to society. If taken to its furthest lengths...a person who is not productive is just as good dead. Of course, we soften that...we don't purge or anything...we just ignore them. We don't pay attention to the charities that take care of those who are down and out. Capitalism seems to encourage surliness to a destructive length (though, more in some than others), insecurity with regards to one's own personal welfare, anxiety, some measure of self hatred (in some), a cheapening of culture, cultural hegemony for those who can sell their culture the cheapest...lots of problems. All economic systems have problems, though. I favor an enlightened socialist approach, but the moment most people hear the word socialism here they're looking for blood. Americans have a dreadful habit of confusing communism and socialism (economic models) with totalitarianism (a form of rule). I work as a shift manager at a pizzaria in my town. There's an old fellow who works there and I won't use his name. However, he never made enough money to retire. He was getting slow, though, and he was cut from the schedule. He may lose his house...I don' t know what he'll do. I worry for him...but the fact that nobody takes this as a factor when cutting him displays that capitalism is not unethical and unmoral, but aethical and amoral. It doesn't necesarilly take anything of the sort into account. It can't afford to, I guess...I know I hate the system sometimes, but...I'll live in it (or leave for another country...possibly Canada or Spain).
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People are corrupt no matter what system they are in. Systems are not corrupt.You cannot bribe someone who dose not want to be bribed. It is the individual who is or can be corrupted.Socialism was corrupt not because of the failings of the system but because people are willing to try and gain by being bought off.
Former Delegate of The South Pacific
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