Amendment to the charter: Limit Delegate terms

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

Article I, effects: This bill shall limit the delegate of TSP to 3 terms total. It shall also be retroactive, meaning that this bill shall apply to nations who previously held the delegacy, so if one has already had their 3 terms, they may not run again. Nations who have surpassed the limit may run again if approved by the assembly. a proposal to do so shall require 75% in favor.

 

Article II, Reasons: It has been noticed that it is many of the same people holding office for years. I refer the assembly to a history of delegates (not complete, but still somewhat recent):

 

• ew Ali
  
• Killer Monkeys
  
• Goddessness
  
• The_XYZ_Affair gains the delegacy and subsequently executes mass-ejections.
  
• The Fathoms Below gained the delegacy. This nation was hacked by The XYZ_Affair, who ejected numerous people including the delegate herself.
  
• Garylandia
  
• Gatren (removed for a for a four month old accidental UN/WA violation)
  
• Alpha C (removed from accidental multi-UN accounts while on his honeymoon, after he asked Desert Rose to access his nation on her own computer)
  
• LadyRebels (resigned due to illness)
  
• THE MATT-DUCK (resigned)
  
• LadyRebels (resigned)
  
• The Shaft (htz3)
  
• Caer_Rialis,
  
• Goddessness (resigned in April 2006)
  
• Caer Rialis (resigned 3rd July 2006)
  
• Fudgetopia, (remained Delegate over 1000 days)
  
• Southern Bellz (removed briefly by coup, May 2011)
  
• Devonitians (non-legitimate, May 2011,)
  
• Southern Bellz (defeated in election June 2011)
  
• Topid/Daynor (stepped down July 2011)
  
• Belschaft (elected August 2011, retired November 2011; nation temporarily controlled by Unibot prior to new elections)
  
• Hileville (December 2011, re-elected June 2012) was elected Delegate on December 7, 2011 and took office on December 12, 2011. Did not stand again, stepping down at Christmas 2012.
  
• Milograd (December 2012 - March 2013) was elected delegate December 24, 2012, and took office on December 25, 2012. Resigned 3 March 2013.
  
• Brutland & Nordland (3 March 2013 - 15 April 2013) - interim holder of the delegacy prior to elections
  
• Milograd (15 April 2013 - 30 April 2013) - Elected to a new term in the April elections.  Milograd began mass ejecting nations at the major update on 19-20 April 2013.  Milograds coup lasted until the minor update on 30 April 2013 when the Coaltion regained control of the region.
  
• Brutland & Norden (30 April 2013 - PRESENT) - Brutland and Norden was elected to the Delegate Seat after succeeding Milograd after his recall.  Brutland and Norden gaining the seat ended a suprising coup of the region.
  

 

 

 (source: http://thesouthpacific.wikia.com/wiki/The_South_Pacific)

As you all can see, many of the delgates have been delegate previously and many multiple times. By limiting the amount of terms a delegate can hold office, we not only open up the opertunity for other nations to attain the delegacy, but will also help to stop potential corruption of holding power too long. It shall also encourage activity, as nations will know that there is a better chance for them to be able to be elected delegate to truly make a difference. It shall also open TSP up to new experiences and methods of some new delegates, which, in the long run, may prove to help the coalition.

 

Article III, time of effect: this amendment shall take effect immediately.

[Kris Kringle]

I will not support this. Inclusion does not come from limiting Delegate terms, it comes from promoting engagement opportunities among residents, which right now exist, and helping them prove their leadership and commitment to the region. I further don't know how limiting who can serve serve as Delegate would help create better opportunities for citizens. If they are interested then they have every chance to participate, volunteers at ministries and build a reputation. Just like Escade, just like me, just like many others. For those who don't know, all Ministers have been looking for Deputies and assistants ever since the election. MoFA needs ambassadors, MoRA needs a Deputy lots of volunteers, the CoA needs a Deputy. Where was the engagement then? Does it only apply to being elected Delegate?

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

I said nothing about better citizens. and if there are less of the nations who are usually in government, then it may make nations decide that they do stand a chance, and run for delegate. of course, this is only one small benifit to this proposal. and yes, this proposal only applies to the delegate. I decided to start without targeting the whole cabinet. one at a time. anyway, yes, I am aware they are looking for deputies, I have helped out MoRA.

[Hileville]

I am strongly against term limits in NS and will not be supporting this.

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

why? what is wrong with term limits.

[Farengeto]

Because, as I've already stated, what really matters is your ability to do the job. Limiting terms is basically saying "Screw you, I don't care how good you are, I want a turn.". Government isn't supposed to be about giving everyone a chance to run it, it's supposed to be having skilled leaders manage it for the good of its territory. It's been stated more that once that there's government positions you can apply for, and many real politicians get their start through working with current politicians.

 

And if this government system is so bad, then why does the majority elect them continually? You claim to represent the majority, while in reality you're currently only a couple voices. There are real world groups like that, and they're the ones that tend to screw with our lives the most.

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

fine, I will add a part allowing for nations who have surpassed the limit to be able to run if approved by the assembly

[Sandaoguo]

Term limits could be a good idea, but the nature of gameplay means that we would quickly run out of possible delegates. Being a GCR delegate comes with much more responsibility than being a UCR delegate, and the pool of qualified players is relatively small. I would support limiting the number of consecutive terms one can serve, but unfortunately not the number of total terms.

[Farengeto]

fine, I will add a part allowing for nations who have surpassed the limit to be able to run if approved by the assembly

So in other words... if they win an election?

 

[Kris Kringle]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Natanian nation of Liberatia" data-cid="105736" data-time="1379781982">fine, I will add a part allowing for nations who have surpassed the limit to be able to run if approved by the assembly

So in other words... if they win an election?




</blockquote>


Two elections in fact. One to run and one to be elected.

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

Term limits could be a good idea, but the nature of gameplay means that we would quickly run out of possible delegates. Being a GCR delegate comes with much more responsibility than being a UCR delegate, and the pool of qualified players is relatively small. I would support limiting the number of consecutive terms one can serve, but unfortunately not the number of total terms.

that is why I posted an addendum to allow for it if the assembly approves.

 

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Natanian nation of Liberatia" data-cid="105736" data-time="1379781982">
<div>
fine, I will add a part allowing for nations who have surpassed the limit to be able to run if approved by the assembly

So in other words... if they win an election?

 



 

</div>
</blockquote>
not exactly. if the assembly approves, then that would mean a majority likes them. so, if the assembly approves, they may run, during which the people will decide which candatate to vote for, as usual, and if he wins the election against others, then he wins. same as usual.

 

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Farengeto" data-cid="105738" data-time="1379785278">
 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Natanian nation of Liberatia" data-cid="105736" data-time="1379781982">
fine, I will add a part allowing for nations who have surpassed the limit to be able to run if approved by the assembly

So in other words... if they win an election?


 

</blockquote>


Two elections in fact. One to run and one to be elected.
 


</blockquote>
not exactly. the assembly vote would simply ask the people if they thought he did a good job, and if the majority agrees that they are good enough to run, then they can run again.

[Kris Kringle]

So in practice two elections, because Assembly is the same as citizenry. Obviously they may not get elected at the actual election, but in practice it would be two, regardless of the result.

[Natanian nation of Liberatia]

well, either way, we should have limits on terms. after all, it provides not only a new experience for said nation, but a new experience for TSP as well.

[Kris Kringle]

That's just limiting the number of nations that can run without actually improving the pool of candidates. Check the August 2013 elections. How many nations actually submitted their candidacy? I'm all for having new people in government, I agree with you that we have an activity problem and need new people that want to get engaged, but the opportunities exist, the point here is having them take those opportunities.
 
Besides, the office of the Delegate is not something to use as a test ground for nations to gain experience. It is the highest executive position in our region and should be occupied by someone that has proved they are capable of managing said responsibilities. If nations want to get experience then they can apply to any Ministry, volunteer, become Deputy Ministers, participate in the Assembly, and specially, running for the Cabinet. No one is preventing anyone from running, myself, Sandaoguo and Escade are living examples of it.

[Farengeto]

And having your proposed assembly vote is utterly redundant since you're really asking whether you want them in that position, something easily resolved within a regular election itself.

[Libetarian Republics]

lol @ if you really want to open up positions, especially the Delegacy, I rather point out limiting consecutive terms rather than term limits in general overall. However I am against term limits; besides being a GCR delegate takes a lot of effort and time and I don't expect anyone to hold that position for a very long time rarely.

[Escade]

Deleted a rant about this and lack of participation in the government on the RMB. 

 

I would like to propose an amendment that only TSP citizens who have successfully held a position in the government for at least two terms be eligible to run for delegate or vice delegate.  That way TSPers will realize that the delegate is a service based position for the region and contingent upon actual service provided. 

 

A "new nation" in want of experience may apply for a position within the government or volunteer for one of the government programs or otherwise gain gainful employ.

 

If a "new nation" without a record of service ran for delegate, I think I would be at the forefront of asking them, "On what basis are you qualified to be delegate of the fourth largest region in NationStates? What kind of ego do you have that you couldn't bother to contribute to the region in the many different avenues provided to show that you actually want to serve rather than lord over?  And finally, Why did you not show your interest in the region by taking a deputy position or a volunteer position in its many agencies?"

 

Being MoRa, interim and then elected, helped me understand how government works and the responsibility involved.

[Kris Kringle]

Couldn't have said it better Escade. Government is not about personal gain, it's about service to the region.

[HEM]

We already have term limits -- they are called elections.

[Southern Bellz]

It does not make elections more fair to limit the ballot access of anyone.

 

Fairness in elections is all allowing equal opportunity to run, not equal opportunity to win.  From there it is up to you to inspire people with your campaign and messaging.

[Libetarian Republics]

This is mostly answering the issue of giving one guy the power too many times. I don't think we want a Todd McCloud in the South Pacific, who would have enough influence to purge everyone despite being one of the most trustworthy guys out there

[HEM]

I agree that having someone serve indefinitely is generally a good thing, but I don't think we have to legislate that idea. I just think we need to have competitive and contested elections where people can make their own choice -- not have government rules make it for them.

[Rebel-topia]

I don't think limiting terms is needed. the region elects who they think will do the job, adds if that's the same person as last term, then do be it. if you think you can do a better job, then run.


Just know that you're more likely to be elected the more active you have recently been. don't expect to be new and, within a month, elected to be delegate. it won't happen. show the citizens of this region that you're in TSP for TSP. And, although it's not required, get involved in section of the government. be active. show that you're not here just to be delegate, and you really care about TSP.