Defense or Security?

[Topid]

Looking around, there was a 'Ministry of Security' back in 2007, correct? Why was that abandoned? Just wondering.After recent events, I was thinking it might be a good idea to think about adding a Minister of Security or Minister of Defense position. They would primarily watch for swappers and help be sure the delegate is aware of those approaching the cap. Granted, I'm not sure it would have helped in the recent coup. Dev said it only took him 36 hours, I don't know if that is true but if so he had a very small window to be caught.Still, I think it'd be better to have another person whose job is at least to try to catch anyone trying to overthrow the delegate. I'm guessing there will be people trying to do what Dev did over the next few months, since he showed it was doable. This new person could also be tasked with helping the delegate keep his/her endo count up, too.Thoughts?

[Daxter]

If I am not mistaken, there is already a Ministry and Minister of Security. However, on the event that that is not the case, I fully support the reinstatement of the Ministry (Defense/Secretary, the name is indifferent, although Defense has a melodramatic/awesome sound to it).I would also think that adding some new set of powers, or reforming already existent ones, to give him more visibility in the wake of potential invaders and the ability to perform quick actions, if urgent enough going through only the Delegate his/herself, to not only keep the SP safe but also reduces or remove the delay that would give potential attackers window of opportunity to succeed. I am thinking something along the lines of having the MoD and the MoFA have regular talks/briefings/updates (as, I understand, is happening now or should be) about potential threats, on who to keep an eye on, etc. If the need arises, the meetings wouldn?t have to be set on fixed dates or on fixed times, and there could always be the possibility of calling emergency ones to target and analyze a particularly threatening nation/region/person/thing/I like enumerating things/etc. Then the MoD would take whatever action is necessary with the Delegate or anyone that is necessary. The specifics are hazy.In addition, we could go a step further and simply add another branch to the Ministry. It would an ?intelligence? branch, or a ?spying? branch. It would do all of its work within the Ministry, have only members that are unquestionably loyal and most importantly efficient on the branch. That, in my opinion, would be the most drastic, but probably one of the more effective ways to stop potential invaders by identifying them before they can do anything and stop them.I am spit balling here. I strongly believe, whether the Ministry is present or not, we need to look at our ?alarm system? and bring some modifications to it to make it actually work. Alternatively, we will have to create the ?alarm system?.

[Guest]

In the most recent law reform (earlier this year) we decided that security and defense were no longer ministry but a joint responsibility of the cabinet members. Since this was mostly due to staffing issues, I'm not necessarily opposed to turn it back into a ministry with a regularly elected minister.

[htz31361849782]

Things had slowed down and activity was slumping the raid may have started activity again and now there may be more need to reconsider this move.

[Topid]

Okay, so does anyone have any objections to moving back to having a regularly elected Minister of Defense/Security?

[Daytime to Night]

We always have done, we just need an active one

[htz31361849782]

I'd take a wait and see posture till you see if this flurry is going to keep going.

[king j]

I agree with Htz3 we should wait, most of the cabinet are on high alert so there is little need of a MoD/S, but it is something we can review.

[Daxter]

I agree with the before mentioned.However I think that this new activity has the potential to stay if we try and keep it and not just sit idly and watch it pass by. In other words, act and you will have activity, normally it doesn?t work the other way around.Open up the Ministry, put up the post and we will have people willing to get involved not just as MoD, but in the servicing army and active surveillance and defense of the region. That, I guarantee. How long it will last? Who knows. The very least we could do is fan the 'embers' that the attack has given us.Any objections to this?

[Topid]

That's my attitude as well, while I understand it might be frustrating to change stuff now and have our activity drop back to its previous levels, I don't think we should let that effect us.Primarily because our activity level wasn't acceptable at all, I think we all agree on that, and we really shouldn't act as if there is a pretty good chance we slip back to that, which is what "see if this lasts" type thoughts sound like to me. I have no intention of letting us slip back quietly.Secondly, I agree with Daxter. Opening up one more ministry and having one more elected position and one more thing being done around here can only help boost activity.

[LadyRebels]

If you give them something to aim for, the people will come, if you sit on your hands waiting for "things" to happen then they will not happen.I say go for it, and then strive to keep things going up a bit. This is the summer months coming upon us, more people are going to be on their computers with time to kill, get out there and help them find their way here....just a thought

[htz31361849782]

My real question was with the how what does the charter say or are we going to disregard it? as I recall there were some delegate powers to go past the charter but only in an emergency and temporarily.

[Daxter]

Well, as of the second I am posting, the charter says nothing about a Ministry of Defense, obviously.It would need a simple bill in the Assembly for its creation.We would not need the Delegate to bypass the charter.It is not hard to create a ministry or to destroy one. I am still baffled to the fact that we don't have one. I understand it was due to staffing issues, but to my knowledge Defense is very important to any Cabinet.I don't really understand why you think this, or anything on any of the other threads, would violate the charter. Then again, I may be out on the ballpark for this one. Care to explain?

[htz31361849782]

Maybe we just got complacent. We had not even been anything that came close to a takeover in a couple of years and we had less and less activity and couldn't fill the few offices we had. We looked to streamline. Not saying it was smart just how it happened.

[LadyRebels]

Can anyone besides a few of us older ones here name the first MoD?*covers Tban's mouth softly with a gentle hand*Not you, I know you know :hug:

[Daxter]

Yah htz3, I understand completely.I think it is general consensus that we should bring back the Ministry of Defense.All that is left now is to bring forth the actual bill.The part on the Delegate is further away from consensus than this proposition is, so I don`t think that a `mega` bill will happen, but that's not a problem. Two bills are just as good as one. Anyone want to draft it?

[Topid]

I am not so sure there is a general consensus to do this, but, there is hardly anything wrong with submitting a proposal and having it voted down. So I figured I go ahead and write something up.



Also note that seeing as MoJ and MoFA are in the charter it only makes sense to create this ministry by amending the Charter by this process spelled out in the charter:

Article 17 ? Proposals

This charter may be amended as necessary. Amendments may be proposed by any member state, or by the government of The South Pacific.



Article 18 ? Submitting A Proposal

Amendments proposed must be submitted to the Cabinet of The South Pacific so that it may inform all other member states, through all available means of mass communication available to the Cabinet.



Article 19 ? Voting

Voting will last for one month. Amendments are approved by a 50% plus 1 (one)affirmative vote of all participating states.

(Just saying all of this because it has been some months since the assembly has voted on an amendment.)



I think we need to add an Article 17 (and renumber the current Article 17 through 21 accordingly).

<strong class='bbc'>Article 17 - Responsibilities and authority of the Ministry of Security</strong>

1. The Ministry of Security shall be responsible for ensuring that no one obtains the delegate position except by legal means.

2. The Ministry of Security shall assist the delegate in seeing that all nations are in compliance with the endorsement cap.

3. The Ministry shall also have authority to take any of the following steps if it sees fit for the protection of the region or its allies:[*:v7qb6rzd]The assembly of a militia for the defense of The South Pacific or a region The South Pacific is allied with.



[*:v7qb6rzd]The creation of an Intelligence effort to find critical information for the defense of the region.

This is about the same as it was in the past, looking through the archives.

[Daxter]

Want to put Ministry of 'Defense' instead of Security?Makes more sense calling it Defense, plus it sounds more dramatic.

[LadyRebels]

is it going to become a combined office? Security/Defense.

[Topid]

I'm more partial to Security because it was the MoS in the recent past and I think the term is more inclusive. If more people support MoD I can switch it.

[LadyRebels]

It truly doesn't matter to me I have seen it either way....*shrugs*

[Daxter]

Well, Defense and Security are quasi-synonyms when it comes to the duties of a Ministry. So yes, Security/Defense will be inclusive inside the new bill and potential Ministry.And Topid, it doesn't really matter after all, I was just throwing that out there. Go ahead and type it out how you wanted to.

[Todd McCloud]

I'd be game to vote for such things. Perhaps we should bring this to vote? I'm still technically the chairman here... would people like to put this up for vote?

[Topid]

I think a vote sounds good!

[Daytime to Night]

I'd be game to vote for such things. Perhaps we should bring this to vote? I'm still technically the chairman here... would people like to put this up for vote?

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