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Quote:This document is to sign into effect the union of Grand Central into The South Pacific Coalition as a Member Region.
Grand Central joins the South Pacific under the following terms:
1. The region clearly labels itself as a member region of the Coalition in its World Factbook Entry.
2. In times of crisis, Grand Central it will come to the aid of The South Pacific in whatever forms that the South Pacific requires.
3. In between its own operations, Grand Central Troops will endorse the legal Delegate of the South Pacific.
4. The South Pacific will gain military priority if the region requests an operation with proper notice.
Through its membership of the South Pacific coalition, Grand Central gains the following rights:
1. The South Pacific will list Grand Central as a member region on its World Factbook Entry.
2. Grand Central shall gain use of The South Pacific?s newspaper for its own press.
3. Grand Central shall send an advisor to The South Pacific to advise on coalition policy.
If either region wishes to withdraw from this agreement then it must contact the leadership of the other signatory. After one week has passed from this notification the agreement is legally nullified.
Signed by,
Delegate of the South Pacific
Southern Bellz
From Grand Central
I sort of had an unofficial 'behind closed doors' talk with the founder of Grand Central. What I liked about him was he was really interested in discussing NationStates and direction, which is something I am looking for a little bit. What I liked the most about him is he had vision about where he wanted his region to go.
The first thing anyone will notice while looking at Grand Central is the fact they are the 10th largest region in the game, with only Capitalist Paradise (which I feel may be the next region would should contact after this) and TITO being the only two User Created Regions with a larger population. But as I said with OBI that population isn't the reason we should be interested.
What we should be interested with is what they do on the game map. When I asked him directly he said his personal vision is for grand central is "to be big in WA affairs and in raiding". So like OBI we are dealing with another military region, this one however has a more committed stance. However, when I pressed him a little more about the idea of having to defend The South Pacific and other military actions he stressed that NS is a game of give and take, which I thought was pretty cool personally. Also unlike other raider orgs I have been in, the region is not a pure military region and is also a democracy, so unlike the agreement in OBI I will not be dealing with only one person. His vision also expanded much more than a military one, for example he had an idea of a WA delegate voting block to cause more influence in the WA. While I said that TSP would not commit to something like that, that we would be open to be involved in more discussions of WA related things.
Now, what I found pretty odd is that the founder seemed to be really into the terms we already have drafted with OBI. He was more than willing to have his army come to the aid of The South Pacific in an invent of a crisis, and what I found odd is that he liked the terms of having his army, while they are off duty endorsing the legal delegate of The South Pacific. However all of the military might in the world would not help us as much as having an actual relationship with a more raider aligned region. I think it takes a real target off of our back as far as worrying about a raider attack. As delegate the biggest challenge to TSP security is an endo swapper combined with a raider attack, being on politically good terms with I think is a good move for the TSP.
I know some of the new guys joining us here soon said they would be interested and building an army, and this would just be another good resource as far as when it comes to that.
The best thing though, is like OBI the people who are dedicated to the region are REALLY dedicated. This guy mentioned he sends thousands of TGs and he has some great people in the region.
I do want to touch on some downsides. The first being that he himself said that his government is having a tough time with activity and the people taking the region in their own hands. However he seemed really hopeful because like us, they have an election coming up.
Another thing is that this is a raider region, and I don't think that the fact that we have an agreement with a raider region that has our best interest as far as security and activity goes would bother most defender regions. It is something to consider, but I think Grand Central isn't huge in raiding yet. I have not seen them raid a lot (maybe some of the defenders who will be joining that can give more weight to that) and I'm pretty sure that they aren't some of the ones that shut down regions after they take it.
What this does do is it puts us in a position to do as well is talk to them about their raiding policy if anything does wind up happening (which I honestly don't think it will).
In recap, I think an alliance with Grand Central would bring a lot to TSP. I think mostly, it brings a lot more political power to us. It would put us on great terms with one of the largest regions in terms of size. It also brings us closer to a region that is looking to get active in the WA which I agree should be one of our goals if we want to be a power in NS (which is what I feel is what we should strive for). The last thing it brings is increased security to the region both politically and in an NS military sense.
Mind you this isn't final at all because they have to vote on it, as well as us.
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Three things: Are they aware of our *essentially* constitutional monarchy where delegates selected as opposed to being democratically elected?Second, I think their lack of activity is actually helpful ... because if we were to bring relations closer ... perhaps our active members and their active members can play off of each other.Finally, could get a list of their army members who would be endorsing you so we know who is friendly and who is not?
===
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As a Raider region, who, exactly, has Grand Central targetted in the past? I, for on, do not want to be painted with the "raider" brush.On a similar note, what criteria does Grand Central use when determining to raid another region?
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I'm sorry, but considering what happened, I don't think I will ever be able to support this.For reference: search the nation Aegara - then look at the region he is in
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Quote:I'm sorry, but considering what happened, I don't think I will ever be able to support this.
For reference: search the nation Aegara - then look at the region he is in
OK ... so that nation is in the RR. Point being ... ?
===
"I learned that dreams don't work without action. I learned that no one could stop me but me. I learned that love is stronger than hate. And most important, I learned that God does exist. He and/or she is right inside you underneath the pain, the sorrow and the shame."
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Taken from Grand Central's RMB, 8:13 AM PDT
[quote]92 minutes ago FlagAtomium Here is a list of All nations ejected from Grand Central by FlagThe Technocracy of Aegara The list also includes nations ejected from Renaissance by FlagThe Pax Imperialis of Anarcho Libertaria.
86 minutes ago FlagStation Man Kandarin
Grand Central as a region had nothing to do with this. I am attempting to contact all GC ejected nations of this action.
Here is a list of All nations ejected from Grand Central by FlagThe Technocracy of Aegara The list also includes nations ejected from Renaissance by FlagThe Pax Imperialis of Anarcho Libertaria.
<a class='bbc_url' href='http://tct-news.com/TORR/040610RR.htm'>http://tct-news.com/TORR/040610RR.htm</a>
Station Man
78 minutes ago FlagFreibourg what is that??
76 minutes ago FlagKyoki Washi woot i'm back
73 minutes ago FlagStation Man Welcome back Aegara went nuts.
69 minutes ago FlagKyoki Washi is there any clues to why <strong class='bbc'>aegara went on a crazy banning spree?</strong>
48 minutes ago FlagStation Man He wanted to attack The Rejected Realms, from what I can tell. He was very strange since the first of the year.
23 minutes ago FlagTwigica It's always sad when someone goes insane.
15 minutes ago FlagTreasure Troves Oh, my dear, not insane, merely pragmatic. You know there is only so much people can take before they decide enough is enough. Anything that SMan says is a lie, because frankly he hasn't a clue about this.
9 minutes ago FlagKyoki Washi what do you mean Treasure Troves? what do you know that SMan dosn't?
Quote:5 hours ago Mavenu hm. I guess I shouldn't point out that Max Barry's not even from America, but is an Australian?
4 hours ago NationStates Moderators When did actual facts or logic have anything to do with idiot spammers?
Â
Change comes not when some group of radical seizes power, thatââ¬â¢s just a shift at the top. It comes when Mr. And Mrs. Ordinary make a stand. When the cake shop owner and teacher and the bearer boy come together and say, ââ¬ËThey are not afraid,ââ¬â¢ anymore.
Monica Whitlock ââ¬â BBC ââ¬ÅFrom our own Correspondentââ¬Â
Nov 7/05 ââ¬â in reference to actions in Uzbekistan, May 2005.
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Also, from their WFE.
Quote:THE FORUM IS CLOSED!
Consider Ideas for improving it.
The forum has BEEN TAKEN OVER
We do have a nation hacker in region.
I'm not entirely sure their gov't is stable at the moment.
Quote:5 hours ago Mavenu hm. I guess I shouldn't point out that Max Barry's not even from America, but is an Australian?
4 hours ago NationStates Moderators When did actual facts or logic have anything to do with idiot spammers?
Â
Change comes not when some group of radical seizes power, thatââ¬â¢s just a shift at the top. It comes when Mr. And Mrs. Ordinary make a stand. When the cake shop owner and teacher and the bearer boy come together and say, ââ¬ËThey are not afraid,ââ¬â¢ anymore.
Monica Whitlock ââ¬â BBC ââ¬ÅFrom our own Correspondentââ¬Â
Nov 7/05 ââ¬â in reference to actions in Uzbekistan, May 2005.
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Quote:<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' > I'm sorry, but considering what happened, I don't think I will ever be able to support this.
For reference: search the nation Aegara - then look at the region he is in
OK ... so that nation is in the RR. Point being ... ?
</blockquote> He ejected all of his endorsers, and is trying to take TRR (and I like Kandarin in his job)
Even if this wasn't a government sanctioned act, the fact that something like this occurred makes me feel that their government is not in control, and that would make me oppose an alliance
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ah invading the TRR...how many people have tried it...
Quote:5 hours ago Mavenu hm. I guess I shouldn't point out that Max Barry's not even from America, but is an Australian?
4 hours ago NationStates Moderators When did actual facts or logic have anything to do with idiot spammers?
Â
Change comes not when some group of radical seizes power, thatââ¬â¢s just a shift at the top. It comes when Mr. And Mrs. Ordinary make a stand. When the cake shop owner and teacher and the bearer boy come together and say, ââ¬ËThey are not afraid,ââ¬â¢ anymore.
Monica Whitlock ââ¬â BBC ââ¬ÅFrom our own Correspondentââ¬Â
Nov 7/05 ââ¬â in reference to actions in Uzbekistan, May 2005.
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This is a huge bummer for me because this was, in my view a stable government that was just hitting a rough patch. I agree with the fact that their government had a rogue delegate and got hacked is too much of a concern to enter an alliance with.Ah well, I hate to cut my losses, but I have to do it here.
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Love the initiative to find large regions that we can negotiate relations with and it worth looking into all options but I think this is clear this isn't going to work out. The claim that this was the action of a rogue delegate is tenuous when that nation has recruited most the region, seems natural for a government to deny involvement.Thanks for going to the effort anyway SB. In future though, could discussions be held on these forums with delegates from the region in question. This process should involve the Minister of Foreign Affairs (once we have one in place) and any military aspects should involve the Security Minister in discussions and I think that way everyone can observe discussions, we can make sure everything is covered and members can message Ministers involved with questions they want raised.
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Quote:Thanks for going to the effort anyway SB. In future though, could discussions be held on these forums with delegates from the region in question. This process should involve the Minister of Foreign Affairs (once we have one in place) and any military aspects should involve the Security Minister in discussions and I think that way everyone can observe discussions, we can make sure everything is covered and members can message Ministers involved with questions they want raised.
Seconded. I like the intentions behind this, but even before the Aegara/TRR incident, I'm not sure Grand Central was the best region to choose. They are raiders, but their army seems to be non-existent - they have no military experience worth talking about.
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Quote:<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' > <blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' > I'm sorry, but considering what happened, I don't think I will ever be able to support this.
For reference: search the nation Aegara - then look at the region he is in
OK ... so that nation is in the RR. Point being ... ?
</blockquote>He ejected all of his endorsers, and is trying to take TRR (and I like Kandarin in his job)
Even if this wasn't a government sanctioned act, the fact that something like this occurred makes me feel that their government is not in control, and that would make me oppose an alliance
</blockquote> wow, that didn't take long.
look at <a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.nationstates.net/page=sc'>http://www.nationstates.net/page=sc</a>
Condemn Aegara
Quote:5 hours ago Mavenu hm. I guess I shouldn't point out that Max Barry's not even from America, but is an Australian?
4 hours ago NationStates Moderators When did actual facts or logic have anything to do with idiot spammers?
Â
Change comes not when some group of radical seizes power, thatââ¬â¢s just a shift at the top. It comes when Mr. And Mrs. Ordinary make a stand. When the cake shop owner and teacher and the bearer boy come together and say, ââ¬ËThey are not afraid,ââ¬â¢ anymore.
Monica Whitlock ââ¬â BBC ââ¬ÅFrom our own Correspondentââ¬Â
Nov 7/05 ââ¬â in reference to actions in Uzbekistan, May 2005.
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Loving the long list of people who took part in the discussion  Thought it was going to list all he ejected for a second!
Hm, it seems the issue is no longer an issue then and my reply a bit late, but I'm with CR here that I don't want TSP to become branded as a raider.Also I'm a bit worried about the "newspaper" clause. If with newspaper the "South Pacific Independent News" section on the forum is meant, then I'm fine with it. However, as some of you know I started the "South Pacific Off-site Times" (SPOT) a few years back...it's become a bit defunct although Kloister tried to revitalize it very recently. If the agreement also includes SPOT, then I'm not fine with it, as SPOT was, is and remains a private initiative and the government has no executive power over it.
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