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kloister · 02-28-2008, 11:41 AM

Quote:It isn't writing resolutions that's difficult, it's getting them to quorum for a General Assembly vote. This pretty much requires sending TGs to most of the Delegates, so organising a team of volunteers for doing that -- and maybe getting a reasonably up-to-date list of all the Delegates sorted out, and cut into convenient sections -- would seem advisable.

Well hopefully we could rope our esteemed Delegate in to help with publicity along with the MoFA...With regard to a list of current delegates, is that information readily available?..And is it something that the MoFA could put together...Maybe you could help Bali, as I believe you have a pretty wide NS footprint?..

Bali Lo · 02-28-2008, 07:29 PM

Putting the list of delegates together probably requires going through the list of regions, page by page, to see which ones currently have delegates (and which ones have messages posted in their World Factbook entries, or their Delegates' sigs, asking people to refrain from contacting them about such matters). This would take a little while, but then it would save time when the TGs were being sent.

ACCEL used to have a list compiled, but that's several months out of date by now...

Whether it's worthwhile putting a list together in advance like that for advertising just a single resolution, rather than for prolonged use, is something that people might want to think about... or are we considering submitting multiple proposals anyway?

I'll help when I can, and there are certain delegates who'd probably be more willing to approve a proposal if I asked them directly than if it were "only" a random member of this region who sent the request (although unfortunately there are probably a few delegates who'd be less likely to respond favourably to a request from me than they would to a request from somebody else, too...), but will be rather busy during the next few weeks. I've never actually had the time online available to carry out a full-scale TG campaign for any of my own proposals yet...

Bali Lo · 03-25-2008, 01:14 PM

I've thought of a potential subject that no previous resolution, and no proposal that I've submitted in the past, covers: How would people here feel about a proposal requiring governments to pay fair compensation for any private property that they require people to surrender to them for any reason, for example because it's needed for official purposes or because they've just made owning property of that type (e.g. handguns, alcoholic beverages) illegal within their territories?

If you are interested then I'll post my current draft here for your further consideration...

kloister · 03-26-2008, 02:22 PM

Bali...That certainly sounds like it has plenty of legs about it...It would be good to get it in here for a review of your draft...

Bali Lo · 03-26-2008, 05:07 PM

Okay.I don't have it on me now, so tomorrow morning (GMT)...

Bali Lo · 03-27-2008, 06:54 PM

A few hours later than planned, but here we are _

Quote:Payment for Seized Property

Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant (?)

Argument: The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING that there are circumstances in which governments may need to acquire specific pieces of private property for official use, and that national governments possess the right to determine the extent to which each sort of property may legally be owned within their jurisdictions,

BELIEVING, however, that people should not be unfairly deprived of their legally-acquired private property,

1. RECOGNISES that national governments possess the right of 'Eminent Domain', which allows them to expropriate privately-owned property when this is required for public use, possess the right to declare the private ownership of whole categories of property illegal, and possess the right to make the private ownership of any specifc type of property dependant on the acquistion of a licence;

2. RECOGNISES the right of governments

A. To confiscate property that was acquired illegally, or that was acquired legally elsewhere but that was then brought within their jurisdictions at a time when its private possession was illegal therein;

B. To make the confiscation of property a part of the sentence in the case of conviction on criminal charges

3. DECLARES that governments must pay fair compensation to any people or organisations whom they or any of their agencies require to surrender ownership of any property that was legally acquired within those governments' own jursidictions, or of any property that was legally acquired elsewhere and that was then brought within their jurisdictions at a time when its possession therein was legal, unless that property was confiscated as allowed by Clause 2 of this resolution;

4. SPECIFIES that this compensation

A. Must be paid with reasonable promptness, unless the former owners freely consent to a longer delay;

B. Must take account of any sentimental value that the property has for its former owners, as well as of its actual material value;

C. Must have its level set so that if it counts as taxable income it would still be fair to the property's former owners after the relevant taxes were paid;

5. GIVES the UNFTC the right and duty of binding arbitration in any disputes about such matters, and gives all interested parties the right to appeal to the UNFTC for this purpose.

So, what do people think?

Should there be a clause covering compensation for damage caused to private property by government employees in the course of their work, too?

Should there be an exemption for seizures during wartime and possibly in emergencies of other kinds too, or at least an allowed delay in the payment of compensation under those circumstances, or would that give repressive governments too much of a loophole to exploit?

htz31361849782 · 03-28-2008, 03:32 AM

maybe you should put in something about covering compensation to the land owner.What I'm not sure of but something.

Bali Lo · 03-28-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:maybe you should put in something about covering compensation to the land owner.

What I'm not sure of but something.

That makes sense: I'll try to put a suitable clause in...

In the meanwhile, some other points (of varying importance) occurred to me last night so here's a draft with those details edited-in (with the additions & changes -- apart from some minor ones, such as the correction of typoes and the renumbering of most clauses -- in italics) too_

Quote:Payment for Seized Property

Category: Human Rights

Strength: Significant (?)

Argument: The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING that there are circumstances in which governments may need to acquire specific pieces of private property for official use, and that national governments generally possess the right to determine the extent to which each sort of property may legally be owned within their jurisdictions,

BELIEVING, however, that people should not be deprived unfairly of their legally-acquired private property,

1. RECOGNISES that national governments possess, within their own jurisdictions,

A. The right of 'Eminent Domain', which allows them to expropriate privately-owned property when this is required for public use;

B. The right, subject to any restrictions set by earlier UN resolutions that are still in force, to declare the private ownership of whole categories of property legal or illegal;

C. The right to make the private ownership of any specific type of property dependant on the possession of a licence;

2. RECOGNISES the right of governments

A. To confiscate property that was acquired illegally, or that was acquired legally elsewhere but that was then brought within their jurisdictions at a time when its private possession was illegal therein;

B. To make the confiscation of property a part of the sentence in the case of conviction on criminal charges;

3. ACCEPTS that governments also possess the right to seize property that is located within their jurisdictions in lieu of unpaid taxes, and for use in settling other debts too if their own laws so allow, subject to the following limitations

A. A reasonable period of time must be allowed for the payment of those debts? before this right can be invoked;

B. The owner of the property shall determine which items are to be surrendered first, unless particular items were agreed as collateral when the debt was incurred;

C. Only the market value of that property, and not any sentimetnal value to its owners, need be considered;

D. Any amount by which the seized property's value exceeds the sums owed, less reasonable administrative charges, shall be returned promptly to the property's former owner;

4. DECLARES that governments must pay fair compensation to any people or organisations whom they or any of their agencies require to surrender ownership of any property that was legally acquired within those governments' own jursidictions, or of any property that was legally acquired elsewhere and that was then brought within their jurisdictions at a time when its possession therein was legal, unless that property was confiscated as allowed by Clause 2 or Clause 3 of this resolution;

5. FURTHER DECLARES that if the possession of a category of property is made illegal, or if the legality of ownership depends on licences that are withdrawn for any reason, then anybody who formerly owned such property legally within the jurisdiction concerned must be given a reasonable amount of time in which to dispose of it before any legal charges can be brought against them for its continued possession;[/i]?

6. SPECIFIES that, unless the seized property's former owners freely consent to less generous terms, this compensation

A. Must be paid with reasonable promptness;

B. Must take account of any sentimental value that the property has for its former owners, as well as of its actual material value;

C. Must have its level set so that if it counts as taxable income it would still be fair to the property's former owners after the relevant taxes were paid;

D. Must be paid in a generally-useable currency, rather than in promissory vouchers or other media of significantly more restricted utility;

7. DECLARES that governments must also pay fair compensation, on the same terms, to the owners of any legally-owned private property within their recognised jurisidictions that is damaged by any government employees in the course of their official duties;

8. GIVES the UNFTC the right and duty of binding arbitration in any disputes about such matters that are brought before it, and gives all interested parties the right to appeal to the UNFTC for this purpose.

OOPS! I've jsut checked, and these changes have taken it from about 2'500 characters to just over 4'000... when the limit is 3'500... Sad

I'll take a copy of it home, to think about while offline.

Somniloquence · 03-30-2008, 02:45 PM

Mayhap the area is too broad, perhaps if you split it into two resolutions. E.g. one for emergencies and one for normal situations?

Bali Lo · 04-02-2008, 01:25 PM

H'mm, I didn't have to change much to get the third draft back within the allowed length, maybe the computer made a mistake when it claimed that the previous draft was so far over the limit... I think that the question of compensation for damage to property will have to be left out of this proposal after all, because it's a complex enough topic to need more space than could be dedicated to it here, but otherwise all that it took was a little bit of moving things around and changing a few words...

Quote:Payment for Seized Property

Catgeory: Human Rights

Strength: significant (?)

Argument: The United Nations,

ACKNOWLEDGING that there are circumstances in which governments may need to acquire specific pieces of private property for official use, and that national governments generally possess the right to determine the extent to which each sort of property may legally be owned within their jurisdictions,

BELIEVING, however, that people should not be deprived unfairly of their legally-acquired private property,

1. RECOGNISES that each national government possesses, within its own jurisdiction,

A. The right of 'Eminent Domain', which allows it to expropriate privately owned property when this is required for public use;

B. The right, subject to any restrictions set by earlier UN resolutions that are still in force, to declare the private ownership of whole categories of property legal or illegal;

C. The right to limit the private ownership of property of specific types to the holders of appropriate licences;

D The right to confiscate property that was acquired illegally or imported illegally, and to make the confiscation of property a part of the sentence if that property's owner is convicted on criminal charges after a fair trial;

2. STATES that if governments seize property that is located within their jurisdictions in lieu of unpaid taxes, or for use in settling other debts, then

A. They must allow a reasonable period of time for the payment of those debts before any seizure;

B. The owner of the property shall determine the order in which items are to be surrendered, unless particular items were agreed as collateral when the debt was incurred;

C. Only the market value of that property, and not any sentimental value to its owners, need be considered;

D. Any amount by which the seized property's value exceeds the sums owed, less reasonable administrative charges for these transactions, shall be returned promptly to those owners;

3. DECLARES that governments must pay fair compensation to any people or organisations whom they or any of their agencies require to surrender ownership or control of any property that was legally acquired within or legally imported into those governments' own jurisdictions, unless that property was confiscated as allowed by Clause 2 or Clause 3 of this resolution;

4. FURTHER DECLARES that if the possession of a category of property is made illegal, or if the legality of ownership depends on licences that are withdrawn for any reason, then anybody who formerly owned such property legally within the jurisdiction concerned must be given reasonable time in which to dispose of it before any legal charges can be brought against them for its continued possession;

5. SPECIFIES that, unless the people from whom property is taken give uncoerced consent to less generous terms, this compensation

A. Must be paid with reasonable promptness;

B. Must take account of any sentimental value that the property has for its former owners, as well as of its actual material value;

C. Must have its level set so that if it counts as taxable income it would still be fair to the property's former owners after the relevant taxes were paid;

D. Must be paid in a generally-useable currency, rather than in promissory vouchers or other media of significantly more restricted utility;

6. GIVES the UNFTC the right and duty of binding arbitration in any disputes about such matters that are brought before it, and gives all interested parties the right to appeal to the UNFTC for this purpose.

2'891 actual characters, + spaces => 3'437 (so that leaves us with 63 characters still to play with...)

I've added the words "or control" in Clause #4 so that governments will also have to pay rent for any land &/or premises that they leave nominally in the true owners' possession but take effectively under official control...

04-02-2008, 03:10 PM

Perhaps the discussion of the actual resolution is better at its place in the <del>UN</del>WA resolution forum instead of the Assembly?Also if you wish to submit it as a collective proposal, maybe it is an idea to revive collective indecision for that purpose, as someone suggested (I think I remember the password, otherwise we could create a new one with a similar name). However, it would have to be maintained by someone without a <del>UN</del>WA nation.

Bali Lo · 04-02-2008, 05:19 PM

How about creating a puppet with a name that sounds more like the region's than that but which does differ enough from 'South Pacific' to be legal? For example, the name "Southern Polynesia" is still free and has South Pacific implications location-wise as well as the right initials...

So, should I take the current draft over to the WA for people there to look at now, or are we waiting for the regional puppet to be ready and using that to do the job instead... or does Mav or Fudgie want to be the person who announces it?

Are there any definite changes that people here want to suggest before it goes to a wider audience, or do you think that it's ready to run as it stands?

mavenu · 04-02-2008, 06:07 PM

oooo I can use my WA rep finally ^_^ instead of having her mock bad WA proposals.

Bali Lo · 04-04-2008, 01:02 PM

It looks as though this line

Quote:Argument: The United Nations,

will now need to be changed, of course, and this clause

Quote:6. GIVES the UNFTC the right and duty of binding arbitration in any disputes about such matters that are brought before it, and gives all interested parties the right to appeal to the UNFTC for this purpose

will need a re-write...

Let's see: Altering it to

Quote:6. CREATES a 'World Assembly Arbitration Tribunal' (or 'WAAT'), gives this the right and duty of binding arbitration in any disputes about these matters that are brought before it, and gives all interested parties the right to appeal to it for this purpose.

would increase the character-count by 50, when we had 63 "free" characters still available...

mavenu · 04-10-2008, 05:30 PM

um... would it be better for you if we went for the funding one that you've proposed, bali?

Bali Lo · 04-12-2008, 12:11 PM

Well, I'd certainly give that a higher priority than this one... especially as there's at least one other funding proposal, which I don't like, being submitted...

For the funding proposal, are you talking in terms of submitting it with a South Pacific nation (perhaps with an author credit for St Edmund) or just of lobbying for it after St Ed -- which has joined the WA, and is simply waiting to acquire the necessary 2 endorsements -- submits it? I'm happy either way...

For reference, here's the current draft of the funding proposal_

Quote:Ways and Means

Category: Furtherment of Democracy

Strength: Mild

Description: The World Assembly,

REALISING that the operations of this World Assembly itself, and of whatever agencies and programmes it might establish through other resolutions, will need to be paid for in some way,

RECOGNISING that it is nations themselves (as represented by their governments), rather than the inhabitants of those nations, that hold membership in this Assembly,

UNDERSTANDING that the diversity of economic systems, strengths and traditions amongst those nations, coupled with respect for their governments? rights, would make any attempts at setting taxes within those nations by the World Assembly highly undesirable;

1. DECLARES that the World Assembly and its agencies and programmes shall be funded primarily by contributions levied from its member nations, but does not attempt to specify how those nations? governments should raise the money concerned;

2. ESTABLISHES the Assembly Budgetary Committee (or ABC), which shall

i. Draw up budgets for the World Assembly, and for its agencies and programmes;

ii. Determine how the costs of funding those budgets shall be shared out amongst the member nations in the fairest way possible;

iii. Receive and distribute those funds;

iv. Publish full and accurate accounts, for the WA itself and for each WA agency or programme, along with independent auditors? reports on these, annually;

v. Oversee the financial management of all World Assembly departments, agencies and programmes, and the financial affairs of senior staff employed in those operations, in order to minimise corruption, fraud and waste;

3. REQUIRES that all member nations pay their assessed contributions to the ABC promptly and in full, unless the ABC accepts that they are genuinely kept from doing so by emergencies;

4. ESTABLISHES an agency called the World Assembly Arbitration Tribunals (or WAAT), commands this to act justly, and gives it the authority

i. To hear appeals by national governments against decisions of the ABC;

ii. To impose binding arbitration in those cases;

iii. To recover the costs of hearing each case from whichever of the parties to that case it considers appropriate;

5. STATES that any voluntary donations to any WA agencies or programmes must be channelled through the ABC, which shall not tell those agencies and programmes who the donors were, except when governments are specifically funding operations within their own territories;

6. RESERVES the right to pass resolutions that would over-rule national governments? policies on taxation

i. To regulate customs duties, tariffs, and any other taxes and official charges that apply to international trade, for the specific purpose of promoting that trade;

ii. To reduce or end the possible inclusion of unfair discrimination in those policies;

7. ACKNOWLEDGES that control of all other legislation about all other aspects of taxation is and remains a sovereign right for each of the separate national governments;

8. RESERVES the right to grant any WA agency that may be established through any further resolution the authority to charge fees for its services, by specifying this point in that same resolution;

9. URGES all national governments to include some form of democratic process in their procedures for making decisions about budgets and taxation, and to make accurate and audited copies of their accounts (to the extent that concern about national security makes this possible) available to their nations' peoples.

I think that it's ready to run...

(Edit: Clauses #8 & #9 improved, 14th April; Subclause 2.iv. expanded, 16th April...

As far as I'm concerned, this is the version that should be submitted...)

Bali Lo · 05-03-2008, 02:40 PM

Given the lack of a reply here, I've made other arrangements: The 'Ways and Means' proposal is probably going to be submitted & TG-ed for by Jey, at some point within the next couple of weeks.

If this proposal can be got to quorum and voted into law then WAAT will be established under its terms, ready for use in the 'Payment for Seized Property' proposal if people here are still interested in sponsoring that one...

mavenu · 05-04-2008, 03:23 PM

yah, i'll help, if only to get your rep out of the penguin costume...

Bali Lo · 05-24-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:yah, i'll help, if only to get your rep out of the penguin costume...

Oh, he's been out of the penguin costume for a few weeks now. (Hence the lack of references to it in his recent posts...) That was the official "national costume" for the 'St Edmundan Antarctic', but with the changeover from NSUN to WA -- and the consequent abolition of all passed NSUN resolutions, including those to which the St Edmundan government had been objecting -- the Godwinnian Commonwealth's seat in the Assembly has now been reclaimed once more by the nation of 'St Edmund' itself...

mavenu · 07-17-2008, 07:33 PM

Bali and I (well, mainly him) have been busy....

Quote:Suppress International Piracy

A resolution to improve world security by boosting police and military budgets.

Category: International Security Strength: Significant Proposed by: Mavenu

Description: The World Assembly,

Believing that people should be able to go about their lawful affairs without having to worry about theft, assault or murder,

Recognising that dealing with crimes that occur completely within specific nations and that only affect those own nations? peoples is a matter for those nations? own governments,

Believing, however, that any crimes that interfere with international trade and travel and/or that cross national boundaries are matters in which the WA has a legitimate interest,

1. Defines the term ?Pirates?, for the purpose of this resolution, as meaning people who are not formally recognised agents of any government (although some of them may have informal links to governments, from whom they receive support in exchange for various considerations, or may be at least partly motivated by loyalty to a cause), unlike ?Privateers?, and who operate in groups to use threats and force to seize vehicles and their cargos ? and possibly their passengers, and/or crew, as well ? for personal gain, and who may also use ships or other vehicles as transportation for raids against settlements,

2. Defines pirates as 'international pirates? if they operate across national borders and/or attack international trade,

3. Requires that all WA member nations refrain from giving any international pirates safe haven, or markets for their plunder, or any other support for their operations;

4. Requires all WA member nations to do as much as they reasonably can to suppress international piracy within their own territories;

5. Urges and authorises all WA member nations to do as much as they reasonably can to suppress international piracy within any areas (such as ?international waters?) that are not under any nation?s effective control, and its bases wherever those are;

6. Requires all WA member nations to treat all offences committed during acts of international piracy that occurred outside of their own territories at least as seriously, as they would treat any comparable crimes committed within those territories and against their own people, if the alleged perpetrators fall into their hands, and authorises them to try people for piratical crimes committed elsewhere;

7. Declares that anybody who is accused of having served knowingly as crew aboard any vehicle being used by international pirates, but who can not be linked to any specific offences, shall be subject to appropriate charges of criminal conspiracy and ?accessory before the fact?; and that proof of that service shall constitute adequate proof for conviction on those charges, unless they prove that they were forced into that crew on pain of death and served only as a non-combatant in which case courts may be allowed to acquit them;

8. Defines the knowing provision of unforced support for international pirates to be an act of conspiracy to commit those pirates? crimes, and requires all WA member nations to treat such acts as they would conspiracy to commit any other crimes of comparable seriousness, unless that support is _
A/ given only to captive pirates, and within the limits of help that can legally be given to prisoners in general, or
B/ given only to ex-pirates, with whom the legal system has already dealt, and is to help them live honest lives;

9. Strongly urges all WA member nations to act at least as thoroughly against any pirates who operate solely within their own territories as they do against international pirates.

Author: St Edmund

Approvals: 44 (Yuehan land, Glenlogan, Gibraltenstein, Extermis Germanicus, Jey, Eiga-Baka, Graalium, Hoylake, Gerainia, Charlotte Ryberg, Greater Gonzo, WA Rep for UEFF, The Sine, The Realist Polities, The IKPK Officer, Arandis, MightyCyberton, Starman Deluxe, Wulfenlands, Jimmy Hart, The Artic Republics, Szegedorszag, Kazzan, Holocausia, Hellbilly Deluxe, The Altan Steppes, Britnia, Epigeal, Willi Republic, Corilone, Penguinion, Iznogoud, Inisven, St Anthony the Great, Kleinekatzen, Pizzabox, Benedict of Nursia, Icy Cold Death Touch, Minqi, Gallantaria, Jinal, Amen Obel, Aragaesia, National Doublespeak)

Status: Lacking Support (requires 58 more approvals)

Voting Ends: Thu Jul 17 2008

we'd like people to help TG delegates to get this out as the TSP resolution, when I post it for real.

mavenu · 09-27-2008, 07:21 AM

we're live.

<a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=piracy'>http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=piracy</a>

I need people to help TG with me.

mavenu · 09-27-2008, 08:06 PM

use this

Quote:Dear Delegate {name here}

I am seeking your support for the WA proposal "Suppress International Piracy". It can be found at <a class='bbc_url' href='http://www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=piracy'>www.nationstates.net/page=UN_proposal1/match=piracy</a>

As there appears to have been a recent upsurge of piracy on the seas within the worlds of NS, the governments of St. Edmund and Mavenu seek to pass a resolution to hep combat it. This proposed resolution helps fight Piracy by limiting where those involved in piracy can seek shelter and gain supplies, while encouraging non-WA nations to also participate.

Thank you for your support.

Mavenu

if you do join me, please start at the end and come forward. obviously, send this only to delegates. let me know, will ya ^_^.

I'm currently in the Ss somewhere...ah. 381 of 584.

mavenu · 09-28-2008, 04:05 PM

Approvals: 76, requires 18 more approvals

mavenu · 09-28-2008, 10:16 PM

mavenu · 10-08-2008, 05:26 PM

Peter Tesh stands up in the assembly.

Representatives of the South pacific, The nations of Mavenu and Bali Lo are please to report the successful completion of this <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=8379&st=0&#entry2710088'>Project Origin</a> as the Suprress International Piracy has been passed today.

We thank the region for your support.

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