Citizenship Changes

[A mean old man]

No citizen shall be able to vote in any elections or in the Assembly until 15 days have passed since they attained citizenship.EDIT:

In the spoiler is what was able to be copied from Google Chache:Spoiler: click to toggleHileville - March 19, 2012 06:11 PM (GMT)Okay so right now you can obtain citizenship fairly easy here in TSP which isn't a bad thing but there are no regulations on losing citizenship unless you have committed a crime. Please post on your thoughts on our citizenship process and how it could be changed if you believe change is needed.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 06:26 PM (GMT)This has been debated for as long as I can remember (and Ive only been here 9 months)... IMO (and Im not too sure how many other regions run their cit), there should be some way to lose cit thats not being thrown out of the region for committing a crime... But becoming a citizen its right in line with how things should be. Have a nation in TSP, you can become a citizen.Hileville - March 19, 2012 06:37 PM (GMT)I am okay with how people get citizenship but I also feel there needs to be something in place for removal of it for various reasons. I am just not sure how we should go about implementing it.Antariel - March 19, 2012 07:06 PM (GMT)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.Gandalfia - March 19, 2012 08:17 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.I'm tempted to agree that there is a call for some form of losing citizenship, adn I've not been here very long at all, as for 4 weeks I'm in two minds, I can see that it seems to be a reasonable time frame, but does making one post on the "ban the person above you" in that time frame ensure that you do not loose your citizenship?I also think, and I'm not sure if it would make lots of work for somebody or not, but a message warning people that they are going to loose their citizenship would be nice.Hileville - March 19, 2012 08:17 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 03:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling You know I really should take some more time when typing things. That is what you get when I am in a hurry.Carta - March 19, 2012 08:21 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.This isn't a great idea.Fudgie hasn't posted on the forums for around four weeks - for example - does that mean she should be stripped of her citizenship? If that was implemented it'd be moronic; people have lives outside of the game, and we must recognize this. Even if someone could re-apply it'd be fairly superfluous. Furthermore, I think our citizenship policies are fine as they currentlyare.Hileville - March 19, 2012 08:38 PM (GMT)Okay so I am iffy on putting an activity requirement on citizenship but I believe that having a process in which citizenship requirement is checked every X amount of months or before elections or something is a must. If someone doesn't have a nation in TSP they shouldn't be a citizen. I don't believe it is a lot to ask for someone to log on to a TSP nation every 28 days or whatever it is before a CTE if they want to participate here.I wouldn't have as much of a problem with that if not every citizen was a member of our Assembly which is something I don't want to see changed. I do believe that we should also look at new citizens being able to vote on items that are currently at vote in our Assembly. We may want to restrict that to where they are unable to vote on anything that is already up for a vote.I understand the activity requirement as once again all nations are a part of our Assembly and if they are not participating in the discussion of things and then come in and just vote against something without explanation it sometimes seems like people are calling them in to vote on it. It is frustrating but the way our government works I don't think that applying activity requirements would work.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 09:07 PM (GMT)Im with Ant, here... kinda.I think there should be some sort of activity requirement... but only for a time period. If you're around TSP for so long (ie: 2 years or something), you become a "life citizen" or something along those lines. Like Carta said... Fudgie hasn't been around here for a while, but she has been in TSP since forever!! Shes been a HUGE part of TSP and, as such, shouldn't lose cit unless she breaks the law (not that she would EVER do something like that, but y'all get what I'm saying)...And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?Hileville - March 19, 2012 09:12 PM (GMT)QUOTE (All the Kings men of Rebel-topia @ Mar 19 2012, 05:07 PM)And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?I believe they just get dual citizenship. I am sure people could resign citizenship but we don't have any official policy on that.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 09:31 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 19 2012, 04:12 PM)QUOTE (All the Kings men of Rebel-topia @ Mar 19 2012, 05:07 PM)And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?I believe they just get dual citizenship. I am sure people could resign citizenship but we don't have any official policy on that.It was just a thought... Its not something that anyone mentions that I've seen in their laws/charter...Hileville - March 19, 2012 09:35 PM (GMT)I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to include that in whatever reform we do but just stating that currently we don't have any official policy like that.EDIT: Oh and to clarify Fudgie has posted on the forum in recently just not in a public one.Antariel - March 20, 2012 01:37 PM (GMT)We need something; letting people who've contributed nothing vote on TSP policy which is in their interest seems flawed.Eluvatar - March 20, 2012 02:38 PM (GMT)If we institute activity requirements for the Assembly then I would insist that we further enshrine our policy of allowing the region to select who wins the Delegacy, after our forum primary narrows the choices down. We'd be potentially taking away the vote of some people less active on the forum after all.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 20, 2012 03:16 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 19 2012, 04:35 PM)I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to include that in whatever reform we do but just stating that currently we don't have any official policy like that.Its not so much that we'd have to add this, because, depending on what we put in writing, NOT having a nation in the region would make you loose citizenship...Hileville - March 20, 2012 03:21 PM (GMT)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Eluvatar - March 20, 2012 03:28 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 20 2012, 11:21 AM)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Yes I know.I'm saying that if that isn't enshrined at the charter level, if we do this it should be.Hileville - March 20, 2012 03:30 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Eluvatar @ Mar 20 2012, 11:28 AM)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 20 2012, 11:21 AM)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Yes I know.I'm saying that if that isn't enshrined at the charter level, if we do this it should be.Okay. Got it. That wouldn't be a bad idea.Hileville - March 22, 2012 08:20 PM (GMT)Below is something to work off of. Wording may need changed as I am not sure if I was clear enough. Let me know your thoughts.QUOTEArticle 2 – Regulations of CitizenshipCitizenship is voluntary. All members of the Coalition of The South Pacific must accept the following regulations in order to become citizen nations:[*:2r240xkb] Fulfill the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present charter and state their nation that resides in the Coalition.[*:2r240xkb] Refrain from threat, harassment, or abuse against any nation in The South Pacific.[*:2r240xkb] Refrain from working or plotting against the Coalition of The South Pacific, or giving assistance to any state or region which the the Coalition of The South Pacific is taking preventive or enforcement action.[*:2r240xkb] Nations in the Coalition will lose their citizenship if they no longer have a nation residing within the Coalition with the exception of nations who are on assignment as an agent of the state. The Chair of the Assembly will be tasked with monitoring the status of citizenship and may request the help of the Ministry of Security in cases of nations that are on assignment.[*:2r240xkb] Upon the approval of a citizenship application the nation will not be able to vote on any item including but not limited to Assembly votes and elections if said items vote is in progress at the time of approval.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 22, 2012 08:56 PM (GMT)QUOTEUpon the approval of a citizenship application the nation will not be able to vote on any item including but not limited to Assembly votes and elections if said items vote is in progress at the time of approval.I think it should be expanded to topics going to a vote within 7 days of confirmation of citizenship. So, a new citizen they can join initial (just started) discussions and vote, but not become a citizen the day before a vote and expect to be able to vote.**** I think 7 days is reasonable, as the charter calls for the bill to be put to vote within 72 hours of the 7-day discussion period. So they can vote if they arrive within the first 4 days of initial discussion (unless an extension is granted)Hileville - March 22, 2012 08:58 PM (GMT)It is Article 6 of the Charter: <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/ind...showtopic=10057'>http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/ind...showtopic=10057</a>All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 22, 2012 09:07 PM (GMT)Thanks, Hileunibot - March 23, 2012 07:39 AM (GMT)We do need tougher activity requirements for citizenship because at the moment, people can be citizens and try to vote and their legitimacy is questioned... which is wrong.I like Rebel's idea of a life member idea, I'd extend that to anyone who has served in the cabinet or in the SPA. That way our policy really is only changing for people who seem to not be contributing very much to the region.johnson - March 23, 2012 11:08 AM (GMT)QUOTE (Carta @ Mar 19 2012, 03:21 PM)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.This isn't a great idea.Fudgie hasn't posted on the forums for around four weeks - for example - does that mean she should be stripped of her citizenship? If that was implemented it'd be moronic; people have lives outside of the game, and we must recognize this. Even if someone could re-apply it'd be fairly superfluous. Furthermore, I think our citizenship policies are fine as they currentlyare.I agree Carta, there fine.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 23, 2012 02:54 PM (GMT)QUOTE (unibot @ Mar 23 2012, 02:39 AM)I like Rebel's idea of a life member idea, I'd extend that to anyone who has served in the cabinet or in the SPA. That way our policy really is only changing for people who seem to not be contributing very much to the region.If this is done, I think there would need to be terms for this:Elected officials(*) Any ___ consecutive terms or ___ nonconsecutive terms (not needed to be the same elected position).The South Pacific Army(*) Anything over the rank of ____ for ____ days/months.

[A mean old man]

I believe I posted this yesterday in the old forums. I also believe that we all know why I've proposed this.EDIT: Also, since we're not quite established yet, I'd say we'd best hold off on voting on this for as long as we need to until everything is set up and until most of us are here.

[Hileville]

In the spoiler is what was able to be copied from Google Chache:Spoiler: click to toggleHileville - March 19, 2012 06:11 PM (GMT)Okay so right now you can obtain citizenship fairly easy here in TSP which isn't a bad thing but there are no regulations on losing citizenship unless you have committed a crime. Please post on your thoughts on our citizenship process and how it could be changed if you believe change is needed.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 06:26 PM (GMT)This has been debated for as long as I can remember (and Ive only been here 9 months)... IMO (and Im not too sure how many other regions run their cit), there should be some way to lose cit thats not being thrown out of the region for committing a crime... But becoming a citizen its right in line with how things should be. Have a nation in TSP, you can become a citizen.Hileville - March 19, 2012 06:37 PM (GMT)I am okay with how people get citizenship but I also feel there needs to be something in place for removal of it for various reasons. I am just not sure how we should go about implementing it.Antariel - March 19, 2012 07:06 PM (GMT)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.Gandalfia - March 19, 2012 08:17 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.I'm tempted to agree that there is a call for some form of losing citizenship, adn I've not been here very long at all, as for 4 weeks I'm in two minds, I can see that it seems to be a reasonable time frame, but does making one post on the "ban the person above you" in that time frame ensure that you do not loose your citizenship?I also think, and I'm not sure if it would make lots of work for somebody or not, but a message warning people that they are going to loose their citizenship would be nice.Hileville - March 19, 2012 08:17 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 03:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling You know I really should take some more time when typing things. That is what you get when I am in a hurry.Carta - March 19, 2012 08:21 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.This isn't a great idea.Fudgie hasn't posted on the forums for around four weeks - for example - does that mean she should be stripped of her citizenship? If that was implemented it'd be moronic; people have lives outside of the game, and we must recognize this. Even if someone could re-apply it'd be fairly superfluous. Furthermore, I think our citizenship policies are fine as they currentlyare.Hileville - March 19, 2012 08:38 PM (GMT)Okay so I am iffy on putting an activity requirement on citizenship but I believe that having a process in which citizenship requirement is checked every X amount of months or before elections or something is a must. If someone doesn't have a nation in TSP they shouldn't be a citizen. I don't believe it is a lot to ask for someone to log on to a TSP nation every 28 days or whatever it is before a CTE if they want to participate here.I wouldn't have as much of a problem with that if not every citizen was a member of our Assembly which is something I don't want to see changed. I do believe that we should also look at new citizens being able to vote on items that are currently at vote in our Assembly. We may want to restrict that to where they are unable to vote on anything that is already up for a vote.I understand the activity requirement as once again all nations are a part of our Assembly and if they are not participating in the discussion of things and then come in and just vote against something without explanation it sometimes seems like people are calling them in to vote on it. It is frustrating but the way our government works I don't think that applying activity requirements would work.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 09:07 PM (GMT)Im with Ant, here... kinda.I think there should be some sort of activity requirement... but only for a time period. If you're around TSP for so long (ie: 2 years or something), you become a "life citizen" or something along those lines. Like Carta said... Fudgie hasn't been around here for a while, but she has been in TSP since forever!! Shes been a HUGE part of TSP and, as such, shouldn't lose cit unless she breaks the law (not that she would EVER do something like that, but y'all get what I'm saying)...And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?Hileville - March 19, 2012 09:12 PM (GMT)QUOTE (All the Kings men of Rebel-topia @ Mar 19 2012, 05:07 PM)And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?I believe they just get dual citizenship. I am sure people could resign citizenship but we don't have any official policy on that.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 19, 2012 09:31 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 19 2012, 04:12 PM)QUOTE (All the Kings men of Rebel-topia @ Mar 19 2012, 05:07 PM)And is there some way for someone to denounce citizenship? something like if said nation leaves TSP for somewhere else, can they strip their own citizenship so said nation can become a cit somewhere else? Or do they just have "duel citizenship"?I believe they just get dual citizenship. I am sure people could resign citizenship but we don't have any official policy on that.It was just a thought... Its not something that anyone mentions that I've seen in their laws/charter...Hileville - March 19, 2012 09:35 PM (GMT)I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to include that in whatever reform we do but just stating that currently we don't have any official policy like that.EDIT: Oh and to clarify Fudgie has posted on the forum in recently just not in a public one.Antariel - March 20, 2012 01:37 PM (GMT)We need something; letting people who've contributed nothing vote on TSP policy which is in their interest seems flawed.Eluvatar - March 20, 2012 02:38 PM (GMT)If we institute activity requirements for the Assembly then I would insist that we further enshrine our policy of allowing the region to select who wins the Delegacy, after our forum primary narrows the choices down. We'd be potentially taking away the vote of some people less active on the forum after all.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 20, 2012 03:16 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 19 2012, 04:35 PM)I'm not saying it would be a bad idea to include that in whatever reform we do but just stating that currently we don't have any official policy like that.Its not so much that we'd have to add this, because, depending on what we put in writing, NOT having a nation in the region would make you loose citizenship...Hileville - March 20, 2012 03:21 PM (GMT)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Eluvatar - March 20, 2012 03:28 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 20 2012, 11:21 AM)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Yes I know.I'm saying that if that isn't enshrined at the charter level, if we do this it should be.Hileville - March 20, 2012 03:30 PM (GMT)QUOTE (Eluvatar @ Mar 20 2012, 11:28 AM)QUOTE (Hileville @ Mar 20 2012, 11:21 AM)So I am so far seeing that those who have voted want to see some kind of change in our Citizenship policy.ELU: Our current Delegate Election policy is that candidates are narrowed down to the final two and then it goes to NS and whoever gets the most endorsements at the end of 2 weeks wins. That wasn't used in the last Delegate election as I ran unopposed so there weren't 2 people to run on the NS site.Yes I know.I'm saying that if that isn't enshrined at the charter level, if we do this it should be.Okay. Got it. That wouldn't be a bad idea.Hileville - March 22, 2012 08:20 PM (GMT)Below is something to work off of. Wording may need changed as I am not sure if I was clear enough. Let me know your thoughts.QUOTEArticle 2 – Regulations of CitizenshipCitizenship is voluntary. All members of the Coalition of The South Pacific must accept the following regulations in order to become citizen nations:[*:pa851z3q] Fulfill the obligations assumed by them in accordance with the present charter and state their nation that resides in the Coalition.[*:pa851z3q] Refrain from threat, harassment, or abuse against any nation in The South Pacific.[*:pa851z3q] Refrain from working or plotting against the Coalition of The South Pacific, or giving assistance to any state or region which the the Coalition of The South Pacific is taking preventive or enforcement action.[*:pa851z3q] Nations in the Coalition will lose their citizenship if they no longer have a nation residing within the Coalition with the exception of nations who are on assignment as an agent of the state. The Chair of the Assembly will be tasked with monitoring the status of citizenship and may request the help of the Ministry of Security in cases of nations that are on assignment.[*:pa851z3q] Upon the approval of a citizenship application the nation will not be able to vote on any item including but not limited to Assembly votes and elections if said items vote is in progress at the time of approval.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 22, 2012 08:56 PM (GMT)QUOTEUpon the approval of a citizenship application the nation will not be able to vote on any item including but not limited to Assembly votes and elections if said items vote is in progress at the time of approval.I think it should be expanded to topics going to a vote within 7 days of confirmation of citizenship. So, a new citizen they can join initial (just started) discussions and vote, but not become a citizen the day before a vote and expect to be able to vote.**** I think 7 days is reasonable, as the charter calls for the bill to be put to vote within 72 hours of the 7-day discussion period. So they can vote if they arrive within the first 4 days of initial discussion (unless an extension is granted)Hileville - March 22, 2012 08:58 PM (GMT)It is Article 6 of the Charter: <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/ind...showtopic=10057'>http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/ind...showtopic=10057</a>All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 22, 2012 09:07 PM (GMT)Thanks, Hileunibot - March 23, 2012 07:39 AM (GMT)We do need tougher activity requirements for citizenship because at the moment, people can be citizens and try to vote and their legitimacy is questioned... which is wrong.I like Rebel's idea of a life member idea, I'd extend that to anyone who has served in the cabinet or in the SPA. That way our policy really is only changing for people who seem to not be contributing very much to the region.johnson - March 23, 2012 11:08 AM (GMT)QUOTE (Carta @ Mar 19 2012, 03:21 PM)QUOTE (Antariel @ Mar 19 2012, 02:06 PM)'Losing' - spelling I think there need to be inactivity bounds.I'm going to cite the example of Dali, who having posted nothing for the duration of my time in TSP, popped up in support of the MPA, then disappeared again, forever.4 weeks of inactivity - no forum posts, should merit losing the mask.This isn't a great idea.Fudgie hasn't posted on the forums for around four weeks - for example - does that mean she should be stripped of her citizenship? If that was implemented it'd be moronic; people have lives outside of the game, and we must recognize this. Even if someone could re-apply it'd be fairly superfluous. Furthermore, I think our citizenship policies are fine as they currentlyare.I agree Carta, there fine.All the Kings men of Rebel-topia - March 23, 2012 02:54 PM (GMT)QUOTE (unibot @ Mar 23 2012, 02:39 AM)I like Rebel's idea of a life member idea, I'd extend that to anyone who has served in the cabinet or in the SPA. That way our policy really is only changing for people who seem to not be contributing very much to the region.If this is done, I think there would need to be terms for this:Elected officials(*) Any ___ consecutive terms or ___ nonconsecutive terms (not needed to be the same elected position).The South Pacific Army(*) Anything over the rank of ____ for ____ days/months.

[A mean old man]

<a class='bbc_url' href='http://w11.zetaboards.com/The_South_Pacific/topic/7711733/1/#new'>http://w11.zetaboards.com/The_South_Pacific/topic/7711733/1/#new</a>There's this as well.

[Rebel-topia]

AMOM... See Hiles spoiled post <a class='bbc_url' href='http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/7711818/1/'>HERE</a>... thats where we were kinda discussing this idea...

[LadyRebels]

I honestly think that having that in place would hurt us more than help us. I thought that we put CR's on hold a week before till after elections were done.

[Rebel-topia]

I dont think it'd be a bad idea if its done right.

[LadyRebels]

I know we tried that a while back and honestly it didn't work out to well for us, but then this is a new day and age in TSP, so it might work here and now.Just not to sure about it is all I am sayin'

[Rebel-topia]

**shrugs**I didnt know it had been tried already...

[LadyRebels]

**shrugs**I didnt know it had been tried already...

Yea but I am talking way way back when we first started up the boards and got people to join the off site forums, so been a bit...if ya know what I mean :hug:

[Rebel-topia]

ok... anyways... I dont see why this wouldnt work... Its only a restriction if accepted within a few days of a vote

[A mean old man]

A law like the 15 Day Law wouldn't have been relevant back then. Nowadays, though, with people practically breaking down TSP's doors to vote on things like the TNI treaty...

[Haxstree]

First, awesome TSP color change on your avatar AMOM.And second, weren't most of the people in question already TSP citizens? I don't think this solves the problem. You can wait 15 days and then vote on everything while putting minimal investment in the region or not really caring about it or w/e. Plus it is annoying for the legit new people to not be able to do anything for 15 days.I think I have come up with a better solution. It was quite long as it involved a new charter and I posted it a few hours before the forum went kablooey. I'm hoping it comes back so I don't really have to rewrite all of it, but in short I don't think this is a good idea.

[LadyRebels]

A law like the 15 Day Law wouldn't have been relevant back then. Nowadays, though, with people practically breaking down TSP's doors to vote on things like the TNI treaty...

Do you know that three of us TG'ed all of the nations back when the boards first went up?, took us two days of straight through with bathroom breaks to do it but we did it, then the flood started, so many people joined that first week it almost drove the admin crazy trying to keep up with it all.So when you say that this is a lot of people wanting to join....well best to leave it where it belongs in my mind and not on the boards.

[Rebel-topia]

Well... like I said before... I think a 7-day period would be best, cause if someone is around for most of the discussions, then they should be able to vote. But if they show up the day before the vote goes up, they shouldnt be able to vote, IMO...

[Eluvatar]

15 days is a bit much I feel.How about no citizen will be able to vote in any legislation or election where voting opened before or within one day of their applying for citizenship?

[Gandallfia]

And second, weren't most of the people in question already TSP citizens? I don't think this solves the problem. You can wait 15 days and then vote on everything while putting minimal investment in the region or not really caring about it or w/e. Plus it is annoying for the legit new people to not be able to do anything for 15 days.I think I have come up with a better solution. It was quite long as it involved a new charter and I posted it a few hours before the forum went kablooey. I'm hoping it comes back so I don't really have to rewrite all of it, but in short I don't think this is a good idea.

You are right on the 15 days, it seems a little steep, 7 days would be more fair. Of course non of this deals with the issue of citizens who have not been around for ages just popping up for one vote without joining in the discussion or day-to-day activity of TSP.Hax. I remember you posted up an idea and I was not sure, alas I should have made a copy to think about but there we go, I remember that there were a few issues with it, but I think I was warming to the general principles that it contained, although I thought it would be better condencesed and inserted in to the current Charter somehow rather than requiring an entire re-write of the Charter, particulalrly as other CHarter changes were being discussed at the same time.

[Rebel-topia]

... Of course non of this deals with the issue of citizens who have not been around for ages just popping up for one vote without joining in the discussion or day-to-day activity of TSP. ...

You're right, it wouldnt do anything about that... But that's not all that's being discussed in this thread (including Hiles cashed "old forum" post). So this was being discussed, AMOM just "started" it here...So lets include an activity restriction on citizen voting... if you've logged in within 7 days of a vote, you can vote...Im just throwing an idea out there... Discuss

[LadyRebels]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Gandalfia">... Of course non of this deals with the issue of citizens who have not been around for ages just popping up for one vote without joining in the discussion or day-to-day activity of TSP. ...

You're right, it wouldnt do anything about that... But that's not all that's being discussed in this thread (including Hiles cashed "old forum" post). So this was being discussed, AMOM just "started" it here...So lets include an activity restriction on citizen voting... if you've logged in within 7 days of a vote, you can vote...Im just throwing an idea out there... Discuss
</blockquote>In theory it would work but in application might be a bit hard to do....a better question to my way of thinking would be if the Admin can keep track of something like that or would it fall on the EC's if it is to go to the EC's we are going to need a bit more power to keep track of the voting and to keep tabs on everyone that is a member of the boards.

[Gandallfia]

In theory it would work but in application might be a bit hard to do....a better question to my way of thinking would be if the Admin can keep track of something like that or would it fall on the EC's if it is to go to the EC's we are going to need a bit more power to keep track of the voting and to keep tabs on everyone that is a member of the boards.

How do the Admin's feel about this? I'm invoking the right of :n00b: in not knowing how everything works but is keeping track easy for somebody to do or does it require a lot of effort?

[A mean old man]

15 days is a bit much I feel.How about no citizen will be able to vote in any legislation or election where voting opened before or within one day of their applying for citizenship?

The reason I said "15 days" is because matters sit in the Assembly for 7 days then go to vote for 7 days (ideally). If they wanted to vote on something that appeared within the Assembly after they attained citizenship, they could catch the tail end of it.So your suggestion here is essentially the same thing as mine.

[Rebel-topia]

... a better question to my way of thinking would be if the Admin can keep track of something like that or would it fall on the EC's if it is to go to the EC's we are going to need a bit more power to keep track of the voting and to keep tabs on everyone that is a member of the boards.

The Admins/Todd and ECs would all have to work together to come up with a list of Citizens that are "legal" to vote...

[Hileville]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="All the Kings Men of Rebel-topia"><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Gandalfia">... Of course non of this deals with the issue of citizens who have not been around for ages just popping up for one vote without joining in the discussion or day-to-day activity of TSP. ...

You're right, it wouldnt do anything about that... But that's not all that's being discussed in this thread (including Hiles cashed "old forum" post). So this was being discussed, AMOM just "started" it here...So lets include an activity restriction on citizen voting... if you've logged in within 7 days of a vote, you can vote...Im just throwing an idea out there... Discuss
</blockquote>In theory it would work but in application might be a bit hard to do....a better question to my way of thinking would be if the Admin can keep track of something like that or would it fall on the EC's if it is to go to the EC's we are going to need a bit more power to keep track of the voting and to keep tabs on everyone that is a member of the boards.
</blockquote>That wouldn't be an easy thing to monitor. It would put a lot of work on the EC's during election time and the Chair of the Assembly all of the time.

[Gandallfia]

That wouldn't be an easy thing to monitor. It would put a lot of work on the EC's during election time and the Chair of the Assembly all of the time.

So not very practical or desireable...

[Hileville]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="Hileville">That wouldn't be an easy thing to monitor. It would put a lot of work on the EC's during election time and the Chair of the Assembly all of the time.

So not very practical or desireable...
</blockquote>I don't think it would be practical or desirable but I am also not the current Chair or an EC so I think we should get their opinions.