Alliance with One Big Island

[Southern Bellz]

This is quite a radical change for The South Pacific, but one I feel will make us a much more secure region, and lead us on the right track to becoming an active power on the game map.



By expanding The South Pacific Coalition into a union of member states, we can share resources and align goals to improve all members.



One Big Island is a respected region in Nation States, and is a neutral active mercenary force. They have showed us a lot of respect in the past by keep their recruitment ads short. I think this is one of the great first steps our region should be taking on a path to get more involved in Nation States as a game.

This document is to sign into effect the union of One Big Island into The South Pacific Coalition as a Member Region.



One Big Island joins the South Pacific under the following terms:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The region clearly labels itself as a member region of the Coalition in its World Factbook Entry.

2. In times of crisis, One Big Island it will come to the aid of The South Pacific in whatever forms that the South Pacific requires.

3. In between its own contracts, One Big Island Mercenaries will endorse the legal Delegate of the South Pacific.

4. The South Pacific will gain priority if the region requests a contract with proper notice.</em>



Through its membership of the South Pacific coalition, One Big Island gains the following rights:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The South Pacific will list One Big Island as a member region on its World Factbook Entry.

2. One Big Island shall gain use of The South Pacific?s newspaper for its own press.

3. One Big Island shall send an advisor to The South Pacific to advise on coalition policy.

</em>

If either region wishes to withdraw from this agreement then it must contact the leadership of the other signatory. After one week has passed from this notification the agreement is legally nullified.



Signed by,





Delegate of the South Pacific





From One Big Island

[Todd McCloud]

I personally believe we're getting the short stick here. OBI is a moderately-sized region, but I do not believe they can foster a defense force, especially in the often short time frames invasions occur. I wouldn't worry about invasions, to be honest, for multiple reasons I won't explore at this juncture. The best defense is, of course, a strong and active delegate who is shielded by a good support group of loyal nations. Bonus points if they're loyal to the delegate in addition to the region. So I personally would advise against 'renting' out the WFE for the promise of protection.

[Southern Bellz]

I'm sorry Todd, I forgot to add something that was pretty important. Which is that in between contracts the OBI mercs would endorse the legal TSP delegate. Which I think is very important because not only will that give extra endorsements, but it will also bring some more interesting people to talk to in the region. And a lot of it fits into larger agenda's I want to work on.For example, OBI takes Warzones regions, which could be used as a story for our press. Which is something we post on the RMB that can be talked about that isn't spam. The goal is here to find take something that is good for us and combine it with something that is good for them.To address your main concern, you are right, OBI does not have a ton of mercs, but BrightonBurg has a ton of combat experience (years), and has replied to all of my TG's within the day, so I see no reason why we should view him as undependable to react to an invasion. Plus he is a resource we can draw on if we ever want to build up our army. I do agree that an invasion is something I view as a not very likely event to happen, but I would view myself as failing to do my duty if I didn't find way to prevent it and forge partnerships that would help us if God forbid, it ever happened.On top of it, BrightonBurg seemed really enthused to work with us and try something different which to me is an instant good sign. A lot of the other alliances in this game are based on military terms only. For example ADN, Invaders, FRA while others are based on the fact that all the regions are similar in some manner, Azure. In this case our regions are pretty different and thats why I feel this idea is special. In the case of Azure, I feel it is a failure (besides as a mutual defense pact) to a degree because what resources are we sharing? With this case, OBI genuinely brings something to us, and we bring something to them.I also feel you are viewing this from a pretty pessimistic view, though it might have been because I left out a pretty important article of this. (Which I apologize for again.) Approaching this as renting out our WFE is not the way I want to go about this. I feel like this is a potential long term relationship between our regions. The best part about it is that right from the start it would be an active relationship, and more than just updating via embassies.I feel you are viewing this on a microscale at the basic level. I think if we get more regions interested in something like this, we are on to something that could be great. I hope OBI is not the last region I bump into that is interested to do something like this with The South Pacific, because I think we can make this region into something that is really damn interesting.To close this post, I want to say, what is the worst that happens if this fails and both regions are unsatisfied with the terms after awhile? Well, we are back here. The worst thing if we don't try it is that our region is stuck in the same status quo. A status quo, that got so bad, that some members of nationstates said this region was not doing its job as a feeder region and wanted to install one of them as delegate of this region. However this isn't something we should try for the sake of trying, but something we should try because we have so much to gain, yet so little to lose.However it might be nice to have a termination clause, such as either party can withdraw by doing xy and z.

[Southern Bellz]

Any other questions or comments?

[Daytime to Night]

However this isn't something we should try for the sake of trying, but something we should try because we have so much to gain, yet so little to lose.

To me that just sounds like trying for the sake of trying, or for the sake of doing something/anything.

Seems a bit rushed to me, I wonder if we went with this idea for a bit and spent a little while planning it then we could probably come up with a better candidate regions/a better solution.

I suspect that BrightonBurg could bring in 5 WAs max, at the very best, probably closer to two or three. Theres no doubt he knows the game well but if he cares about TSP he would've got involved already, any involvement is simply for his own regions gain. I'm not criticising him for that, its understandable, just saying how it is.

I can think of several groups who would happily store their WA nations here in between missions rather than in their own holding regions if they could gain those benefits. This would be double, triple or even more WAs than One Big Island could.

I'm not rejecting this idea, I think it has potential and is exactly the sort of innovation our region should be looking for. But mercenary doesn't mean neutral, and any agreement with a military force in this game will place question marks over our neutrality and may mean we are forced to take sides on the military side whether we like it or not. What may seem like a good security move could actually, through no fault of our own, become a bigger risk to security.

We are in a fairly good position, our members have good contacts and I don't think any of our active members have done anything (at least in the past year and a bit) to tread on anyones toes so we're not a natural target unless we make ourselves one. I'd suggest that outward signs of our inward activity (and neutrality) will do far more for our security than a few extra WA's.

[Dyr Nasad]

"proper notice" <- what?...thats weak...I don't really like the idea, they don't have much to offer at all

[Southern Bellz]

I really feel like this is NOT trying for the sake of trying because I honestly feel that One Big Island brings a lot to the table. For starters let?s compare and contrast:



The South Pacific:

We are a huge region that does near nothing besides exist as far as NationStates care. Apparently my vote in the WA has a pretty big impact based on how many nations TG me for support (I jest). However let?s take a look at how The South Pacific operates now and why that is a HUGE problem.



You said this :

We are in a fairly good position, our members have good contacts and I don't think any of our active members have done anything (at least in the past year and a bit) to tread on anyones toes so we're not a natural target unless we make ourselves one.

There is a reason our members have not done anything to tread on anyones toes. It is because outside of Mav, our current active user base doesn?t do anything outside of this region and the ones that do don?t view themselves as TSP first, but rather view themselves as a member of region X with citizenship of TSP on the side. The sad fact is you can?t do anything in this game without stepping on someone?s toes. The fact that I am delegate of TSP is putting me on the watch list of some defender groups because of my past. Think of that, if worrying about stepping on people?s toes is the guiding method of my leadership, I already failed by being myself! My hands are bound to do nothing as delegate. A very sad but true fact, if I act to please group X, group Y hates it. If I act to please Z, group X and Y hate it. Want to know which group I plan on acting to please, TSP, and I feel doing nothing is no longer a proper course of action. There is a reason why I was elected delegate. I ran on a platform of a more active TSP, and I am willing to accept that a more active TSP may upset the natural order of the game, and am willing to defend all of my actions I take as delegate. I am not here to serve the interest of our contacts or coddle their feelings. I am here to protect and serve TSP and I feel signing this into effect is the best way to do so after looking at what One Big Island has to offer.

I want to add that our current system almost caused the downfall of this region. There was an outside group of people (including defenders, but not exclusively) that made a forum that was talking about kicking the ?Old Guards? of this region out of power and replaced with a hot shot of their choice, mostly because The South Pacific was not doing enough for the game. I think it is pretty obvious they were not looking out for TSP in this case, and actually contradicts the claim that you bring up that our current path leaves us with no one to watch out for. Lucky for us, some of the current members of this region, and those who have not been seen for awhile, like Geo, prevented this from happening, but it does make you think about the price of inaction.



One Big Island:

Is a military Merc group that?s very purpose makes them an active participant on the NationStates gamemap. They have an extremely rich history and culture (that screams independence like ours), but more importantly have outlasted even the biggest powers in the game. They are by no means the biggest, but in the scope of the whole game, they are ranked 80 out of over 6000 regions. Just because they don?t use a recruitment script, like the commonwealth or TITO, doesn?t mean their size is not impressive. (Also largest numbers are not everything, look at The Lexicon and Taijitu now) On top of this they are one of the most unique military regions in the game (and active, took over a warzone the other day). I implore you to name one other Merc force? Looking at the rest of NS military, I can name countless defender/raider regions. Only a few that tried legitimate new ideas and expanded the game past what it was.



This is the kind of thinking I want when I think of regions to join us as a member region. This is what I think One Big Island offers us, along with the handful of WA?s in times of inactivity and in crisis. If this is the short end of the stick, then I really don?t know what else to say to you guys. I think we should be proud of this.

I think the mentality that One Big Island has nothing to offer is really regressive thinking that reeks of elitism that has been seen in many feeders for a long time (not trying to accuse you of that, DTN, because you bring up some great points). It is pretty odd to me that the only alliances feeders make is with each other and the buzz worthy user create region of the day (in case of Azure). I think this type of thinking, that looking at what the region isn?t, is the driving force behind that.



God I am really mad that my original got deleted, because it flowed so much better, but that?s what I get for not backing this up. I will just go now to address point by point



The Fact that this idea might work with other regions:

I agree! I think that this idea will work fantastically with other regions. I don?t think the fact that OBI is the first region detracts from the idea itself at all. I can only hope other regions show the interest that OBI is showing.



Next:

Theres no doubt he knows the game well but if he cares about TSP he would've got involved already, any involvement is simply for his own regions gain. I'm not criticising him for that, its understandable, just saying how it is.

I don?t disagree with this at all, but I think we should reflect on who has reached out with us. The only regions that have reached out to us are other feeders and the politically savvy regions, which I would bet has relations with most of the feeders. However BB, has showed us respect with his short recruitment ads, and I feel that is the most you can expect from any region you don?t reach out to. I think we should be thrilled that a region reacted this way when we reach out to them, despite the foreign policy of isolationists. Obviously he cares about his gains as well, but do we can?t expect a real relationship with them, if we don?t give and take.



Next:

. But mercenary doesn't mean neutral, and any agreement with a military force in this game will place question marks over our neutrality and may mean we are forced to take sides on the military side whether we like it or not. What may seem like a good security move could actually, through no fault of our own, become a bigger risk to security.

I agree, and I would like to take this chance to define what neutral is to me. In NationStates, neutral is looking out for your own interests, and not getting caught up in the defender/raider game of just choosing sides because that?s where history laid the cards for you. We should do what we feel is right, and do what we want to do, because it is in the best interest of the region. If others get pissed, that is the price to be paid. Obviously, we shouldn?t flamebait regions into doing things or act to stir the pot, but to not do anything is a danger worse than offending everyone.

I say this because of my past. I spent a good amount of time in the region Taijitu. Taijitu was a neutral region. However when they started to do things that the natives were pretty happy with, they stared to offend the international community. Because of this, taijitu did nothing, and one by one the people that were excited for the region left, because their hands were tied by its own policy. I do not want to be like taijitu, I have learned from their mistakes



As far as how this ties to OBI is as neutral as a military force in this game, working for both raiders and defenders. As far as the security risk goes, anything we do will be a security risk, and we can?t get obsessed over this because this is what led to out inactivity and isolationist period. Which almost gotten us taken over as well and I would be was the closet TSP came to getting raided in awhile.



Last point I would like to counter is:

. I'd suggest that outward signs of our inward activity (and neutrality) will do far more for our security than a few extra WA's.

You suggest also, that internal recruitment is a great plan. I agree, and anyone willing to do so, please do. But what are you going to attract them with? TSP has a great off topic section? There is a reason that despite Mav?s great RMB campaign, not many follow through with joining the region. Sadly it is because we don?t do much.



When a region is active, it naturally attracts people. People are silly, they aren?t going to go to the first region they get a TG from and live at that region for the rest of the time they play NS. Most players size things up, and a lot of the best players go to the active regions. Even this region?s core group of people is evident, most people here (That are all TSPer) got involved awhile ago when there was a lot to shape this region with. They had real influence over things that happened, and now they are as loyal as can be to this region.



Just looking at just our inward activity, to me is just dancing on an idle ship. While fun for a bit, you are not going to attract the explorers, the movers and shakers, or the best of the best. In fact let?s look at TSP now, I am having trouble filling a 3 member committee. I can post all I want about it, but its not getting filled. You can?t just get a successful region though raw effort. You can keep the ship afloat, as Mav has shown. But nothing is going to improve if you don?t have someone at the helm and a crew that works as one with their ship. Once that ship is heading for exciting new waters, the people come to you.



Thank you Daytime, for a great response, and I hope I changed your mind about the value of OBI. (I am glad you like this thinking though and I hope to see some more feedback.)



Dyr, now to you:



As far as this goes:

proper notice" <- what?...thats weak..

The idea is to forge a partnership, not to control everything they do and micro- manage them. If I put it anyway else, I feel it would allow TSP to treat OBI like a puppet region. I really want to bring together two pretty much independent regions to be working on similar goals, so we can both accomplish things better, not so much, WE RULE OBI NOW.

I don't really like the idea, they don't have much to offer at all

I am trying to fit this together, and it could mean that you don?t like the idea because OBI has nothing to offer at all, or you don?t like the idea and OBI has nothing to offer.



If the former:



I hope by now I showed the value of OBI, I think they are a great region.



If the latter:



If you don?t like the idea, instead of just stating it, you can show me the proper respects, and tell me why you don?t like it, so I can attempt to respond.



<strong class='bbc'> If you guys have any suggestions to improvements, then please post them </strong>



Thank you both for your feedback, and I hope you support the idea now.

[Daytime to Night]

I'm hoping to do some recruitment for the region, I can't promise anything big but I'm definitely going to put some time aside to do that!You make some good points about treading on peoples toes etc. Upon reflection I don't think this agreement will get much of a negative response internationally anyway, and its certainly not going to risk our security.I support this.I do miss Geo and Kickin Boots though

[sedge]

One Big Island certainly are a unique region, and perhaps thats why they're a decent choice for starting this off. I support this idea.

In fact let?s look at TSP now, I am having trouble filling a 3 member committee.

I'm still considering whether to be on the committee or not... I can't decide between that or running for a position.

[Dyr Nasad]

OBI is a great region, I'm not denying that, but I don't see what we have to gain here. We are giving them mention in our WFE, which seems huge, imo. But they don't seem to have much to offer in return. Yes, they are large and active, but are any of them active here? If, culturely, we wanted an exchange, I'd be more comfortable if some OBIers were active here, and we did an alliance afterword, because then we know that they are interested. However, BB is the only OBIer that I usually see outside of their region, and (*Cheers*) I'm quite happy that he actually interacts with us with his adspam, but he's not really active here. Then, on the military side, you have the full support of the active base of TSPers, so the only thing you really have to worry about is new players endotarting, and that is usually easy enough to catch - so you'll probably never need their WAs. I'd love to see them active here, and us active there, but I don't understand what they are giving us in this alliance.wow...that was longer than I wanted

[Southern Bellz]

I want to state I did not label this a mutual defense pact for a reason, and the reason is I think this is much more than a defense pact.Honestly, I don't know how to react to your line of thinking Dyr, because to me it comes off as, only seek alliances with people that come here. There are only 2 types of people that come here from outside of TSP, duel citizens (Who when representing TSP should leave their other hats at the door), and ambassadors. So that would really leave ambassadors to make alliances with and I feel that is a good way to make mutual protection pacts and other alliances, but I don't feel that is how you try to start something new. I say its high time our government STOPS taking a back seat when it comes to Foreign Affairs, and come up with our own end goal, and meet it.In essence, they are becoming a member region of The South Pacific Coalition, which means to me that their recourses, expertise, and culture come together with TSP. As we continue to expand The South Pacific Coalition, we can offer more and more resources to other regions. If you would love to see more OBI's here, and more TSPer's in OBI than this alliance is the right step. If you really don't see what they have to offer now, I don't know what to say. They are offering us a lot.

[Southern Bellz]

One Big Island certainly are a unique region, and perhaps thats why they're a decent choice for starting this off. I support this idea.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' >In fact let?s look at TSP now, I am having trouble filling a 3 member committee.

I'm still considering whether to be on the committee or not... I can't decide between that or running for a position.
</blockquote> As far as this goes I think it is one of the better position for international members with other obligations and allegiances. There is not a huge time commitment, besides for the election period, and there is very little duality issues.

[Daytime to Night]

Polished the text a bit, let me know if you have any suggestions:

This document is to sign into effect the union of One Big Island into The South Pacific Collation as a Member Region.



One Big Island joins the South Pacific under the following terms:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The region clearly labels itself as a member region of the coalition in its World Factbook Entry.

2. In times of crisis, One Big Island it will come to the aid of The South Pacific in whatever forms that the South Pacific requires.

3. In between its own contracts, One Big Island Mercenaries will endorse the legal Delegate of the South Pacific.

4. The South Pacific will gain priority if the region requests a contract with proper notice.

</em>

Through its membership of the South Pacific coalition, One Big Island gains the following rights:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The South Pacific will list it One Big Island as a member region on its World Factbook Entry.

2. One Big Island shall gain use of The South Pacific?s newspaper for its own press.

3. One Big Island shall send an advisor to The South Pacific to advise on coalition policy.



If either region wishes to withdraw from this agreement then it must contact the leadership of the other signatory. After one week has passed from this notification the agreement is legally nullified.



Signed by,





Delegate of the South Pacific





From One Big Island</em>

<em class='bbc'>



One thing that I thought was, what is the role/purpose/power of this 'advisor' that One Big Island shall send to us.



The other issue is the legality of this agreement next to our Charter. We may need to change some of the terms if this is to be constitutional.



For example:



</em>

All nations interested in joining the Coalition of The South Pacific must fulfill the following requirements.



1. Call The South Pacific region their home

If they reside in One Big Island surely they cannot legally call TSP their home, that needs to be addressed.



Another point is this:

All members of the Coalition of The South Pacific must accept the following regulations:



2. All members shall refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of any state or region in a manner inconsistent with the policies of the Coalition of The South Pacific.

If One Big Island is going to retain the freedom to accept contracts without our approval then this could constitute an infringement of the Article.

[Dyr Nasad]

you forgot a [/i] tag

[Southern Bellz]

This document is to sign into effect the union of One Big Island into The South Pacific Coalition as a Member Region.



One Big Island joins the South Pacific under the following terms:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The region clearly labels itself as a member region of the Coalition in its World Factbook Entry.

2. In times of crisis, One Big Island it will come to the aid of The South Pacific in whatever forms that the South Pacific requires.

3. In between its own contracts, One Big Island Mercenaries will endorse the legal Delegate of the South Pacific.

4. The South Pacific will gain priority if the region requests a contract with proper notice.</em>



Through its membership of the South Pacific coalition, One Big Island gains the following rights:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The South Pacific will list One Big Island as a member region on its World Factbook Entry.

2. One Big Island shall gain use of The South Pacific?s newspaper for its own press.

3. One Big Island shall send an advisor to The South Pacific to advise on coalition policy.

</em>

If either region wishes to withdraw from this agreement then it must contact the leadership of the other signatory. After one week has passed from this notification the agreement is legally nullified.



Signed by,





Delegate of the South Pacific





From One Big Island

My intention was to make it so OBI does not have to follow our every law, and not have voting power here (unless they had dual citizenship). I would argue legally that The Coalition of The South Pacific is different than The South Pacific Coalition. The former talking The South Pacific, while the later talking about the Union of multiple member states. Though that is pretty confusing, so a new name might be in order.

[Daytime to Night]

Union of the South Pacific?

[Southern Bellz]

I like the name as it stands now, TBH, despite being a little confusing.



Anyways, the last thing I am adding is that OBI stated that it wants a clause that if I am no longer the legal delegate they can opt out.

This document is to sign into effect the union of One Big Island into The South Pacific Coalition as a Member Region.



One Big Island joins the South Pacific under the following terms:



<em class='bbc'>

1. The region clearly labels itself as a member region of the Coalition in its World Factbook Entry.

2. In times of crisis, One Big Island it will come to the aid of The South Pacific in whatever forms that the South Pacific requires.

3. In between its own contracts, One Big Island Mercenaries will endorse the legal Delegate of the South Pacific.

4. The South Pacific will gain priority if the region requests a contract with proper notice.

</em>

Through its membership of the South Pacific coalition, One Big Island gains the following rights:

<em class='bbc'>

1. The South Pacific will list One Big Island as a member region on its World Factbook Entry.

2. One Big Island shall gain use of The South Pacific?s newspaper for its own press.

3. One Big Island shall send an advisor to The South Pacific to advise on coalition policy.</em>



If either region wishes to withdraw from this agreement then it must contact the leadership of the other signatory. After one week has passed from this notification the agreement is legally nullified.



If Southern Bellz is no longer the legal delegate of The South Pacific, One Big Island can legally nullify the agreement instantly.



Signed by,





Delegate of the South Pacific





From One Big Island

[Daytime to Night]

I find it odd that they'd request that clause. I don't see what difficulty a weeks notice will serve and I'd vote no if it included that clause. This agreement should benefit the region, and not just your delegacy.

[Southern Bellz]

I agree, but the way they put it is that if a new delegate came along that did not best represent both regions, they want the option to leave without being bound by the contract and forced to do things for a week.

[Daytime to Night]

The succession period takes longer than a week anyway, they'd get warning well in advance

[Dyr Nasad]

I guess we should give this a shot and see how it turns out - hopefully this will work out great and we'll expand our FA presence more in the near future.