IMPORTANT: Re B&N

[Belschaft]

Brutland, in response to your unilateral actions regarding Gatesville, in which you publicly withdrew cabinet executive policy without consultation or any proper authority, I have no choice but to demand you immediate resignation as Delegate.

[Southern Bellz]

You are demanding our delegate to resign for acting like a delegate?  Especially after all B&N has done for this region.  He has stepped up to the plate HUGE the last few years and is always here when the region is in need.
 
You are a member of B&N's cabinet, your job should be supporting his efforts in leading the region.  Not the other way around.  B&N saw the situation with GV differently than you and acted to de-escalate the conflict with tact and poise.

[Belschaft]

B&N acted in a manner grossly unconstitutional, as he was informed before hand. The Delegate operates within the parameters of the law; if he does not, then we are nothing but what Milo said we were. The right to make policy is invested in the cabinet, not the Delegate. What has occurred here is a coup detat. B&N refused to even let the Cabinet <em class='bbc'>see</em> the agreement before illegally issuing it.
 
I have no choice but to act to defend the Charter and the rule of law. I will have a public statement issued shortly. I would rather see TSP go down in a blaze of glory than have our most fundamental principles eroded.

[Belschaft]

The Office of The Chair of The Assmebly<img src='http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n525/dphileman/tsp_logo.png' alt='Posted Image' class='bbc_img' />The Coalition of The South Pacific

 It must be noted that the recent statement regarding Gatesville by The Delegate of The South Pacific, Brutland and Norden, was seen by neither The Assembly or The Cabinet of The South Pacific before being issued. The one member of TSP's government other than Brutland and Norden to be aware of any such agreement, myself, made it clear that the terms detailed within it were not likely to be acceptable to either. When, in response to this, Brutland and Norden made clear that he intended to issue a statement declaring the agreement regardless he was informed that such actions would be grossly illegal, and constitute a vast overreach of his authority. The South Pacific operates on a basis of cabinet government and according to a legal Charter. Under neither is the Delegate empowered to make foreign policy unilaterally, or revoke an executive decision made by cabinet. Further, it was made clear that should he do so I would have no option but to demand his immediate resignation and, should he refuse, seek his recall via the Assembly. I have now demanded his resignation, and am waiting for a response. Upon this point be very clear; the above statement and actions by Brutland and Norden have no legal weight whatsoever. The statement of The Cabinet of The South Pacific remains in full force. Brutland and Norden's actions, whilst well intentioned, threaten the destruction of The South Pacific. Having just fought a painful battle in defence of the rule of law, it is shocking to see Brutland and Norden abandon it. BelschaftChair of The Assembly of The South Pacific 
 
Give me one reason not to issue that right now.

[Brutland and Norden]

Give me some time to post. I don't have all the time in the world.

[Southern Bellz]

Because this is how our laws are stated
 

 
[color=rgb(90,88,84);font-family:tahoma, helvetica, arial, sans-serif;background-color:rgb(253,250,247);]The Delegate will serve as the Head of State and be responsible for leading the Cabinet.[/color] 

[Belschaft]

You seem to have plenty of time to break our laws. Congratulations, you've achieved you fait acomplais; to reverse your grossly illegal actions we would have to make ourselves monumentally stupid, so the piece of crap you let GV force on you stays. Now resign and end this coup detat or I go public and destroy what little good you just did.

[Belschaft]

'The Cabinet may adopt Executive Policy in cases where no law exists; Executive Policy may not conflict with the Charter, Bill of Rights, or Code of Law.'
'The Ministry [of foreign affairs] is responsible for all interactions with foreign regions.'
'The Ministry [of foreign affairs]  is responsible for approving, denying, constructing, and requesting the removal of embassies and consulates.'

[Southern Bellz]

So did Hile grossly break our laws by posting statements Ant should have posted?  Or the fact that Ant was told NOT to talk to The Pacific by the cabinet?  

[Brutland and Norden]

I stand by my actions and my statement. I believe that I am doing what is best for the South Pacific. Like accepting being the focal point of resistance to Milograd. The war against Milograd was a just war I had to fight. We are fighting against a couper one of whose intentions is to destroy the South Pacific. He had done grave injustice to the region and I had to rise up.
 
The spectre of another war, when TSP has not yet fully recovered from the Milograd debacle, will be more damaging to TSP. Especially one as petty as this, caused by an inaccuracy in one of our statements. It is another war we cannot and should not fight, especially with so flimsy a reason.
 
I believe that the statement was inaccurate. Gatesville had not fully and formally deployed to the South Pacific during the Milo coup. Because if they did, we would still be fighting Milo now. They could have poured their army in. Sure, some of them came in and supported Milo. But you can say that thing about TNP too, with Durk and B Wolf, but we don't say that TNP has betrayed us.
 
Gatesville never formally and fully deployed into TSP. The insinuation that they did was the one that caused offense. As Delegate, I am compelled to apologize for that inaccuracy. My fault, I think for this instance, was not fully reading the <a class='bbc_url' href='http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/4728-gv/'>other</a> thread. I voted in <a class='bbc_url' href='http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/4775-the-stately-quadrile/'>this thread</a> believing that we are not going to issue any statement with regards to Gatesville. It is the issuance of this statement that caused the alarm and the escalation of tensions.
 
To pull our regions from the brink, I had negotiated with Gatesville to rectify the situation. I needed to do it quickly and effectively before any further escalation and untoward events occur. I would like to have consulted the Cabinet over the issue, but in this situation, time is of the essence. Nevadar told me she was talking to me only because the events are recent. If I would've approached her later, she wouldn't have talked to me in anyway because Gatesville does not recognize the Coalition. If I waited further, we might not have pulled our regions from the brink and will only end in one being destroyed. I would like you to hazard a guess on which one has no founder and is more vulnerable.
 
You know that I always consult and defer to the Cabinet in almost all instances. Given that it took us more than a week to even decide what to do with TWP and TP, we might not be able to decide in time. We may just pass the point of no return, the point where there is no repairing of relations, and simply drag TSP and our allies into war. I have taken it upon myself to act alone, quickly, and effectively. I believe my efforts had borne fruit. Gatesville has just issued a <a class='bbc_url' href='http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=14399721#p14399721'>statement</a> declaring us no longer enemies and they has recognized the Coalition as the legitimate government of TSP.
 
I also believe that my action is not illegal. I am rectifying an inaccuracy in the statements made on behalf of the region and apologizing for it. We had not declared war against Gatesville, and so this is not a treaty of peace. I have simply de-escalated the tensions, in my belief that it is for the good of the South Pacific. Like in the Cuban Missile Crisis, damage to TSP and our allies has been averted.
 
You also know as well that I do not desire the delegacy. But we are in a sensitive time, time for rebuilding the region, and as such, I am sticking to my timetable of resigning. I am not going to resign now, I will resign later.

[Belschaft]

I stand by the statement. It was an is 100% accurate. Members of the Gatesville Guard deployed to support Milograd. The insinuation that the statement claimed anything other is based on an intentional misreading of it by Gatesville.
 
Congratulations, you have just apologized to the first and most consistently supportive region of the Milograd coup for us telling the truth. Our FA is now in effect in ruins, we are to become the laughing stock of NS, and for the next decade GV will boast about how TSP surrendered to them in under twelve hours.
 
This is especially impressive as Gatesville <em class='bbc'>has no update army</em>. We can deploy as many people at update as they can. And that we managed to neutralize most of their FA. And that fact that GV has never once won a war, but rather makes lot of noise for a month and then declares victory and moves on.

[Belschaft]

Let me put it this way; we just apologized to GV for them invading us.

[Brutland and Norden]

Gatesville is not alone in 'intentionally' misreading the statement. I had read it in the same way as they did. Many other people read it the same way. People on IRC were also reading it the same way.
 
Between apologizing for an inaccurate statement and seeing the region destroyed, I am going to certainly choose the former over the latter. Do you think GV will be the only one to move in the event of a war escalation? We had issued antagonizing statements to TWP and TP. That will certainly give them a reason to move to materially support GV. GV has allies too that they can move in. How about our allies? Perhaps TNP and Osiris would move. But remember that these are feeder regions too and are vulnerable too. If any two gets attacked at once we might not able to keep up.
 
We still have malcontents in TSP. Those can be stirred quite easily. We are in no position to fight a war right now. One invasion is enough.
 
GV can spin things their way. You can spin things your way. You can have others spin things your way. But the bottomline is, tensions had been de-escalated and TSP is safe again. I believe that the result is what matters. I am starting to learn not to care what people say about my actions, just as I am learning not to care when Milo's supporters trash and curse at me in telegrams and posts.

[Eluvatar]

While Brutland may not have acted in the best way possible, I am very disappointed with how Belschaft reacted.Looking into my records, it doesn't appear that the statement to Gatesville was actually approved by a majority of the Cabinet. If there is evidence otherwise, I would be happy to take this back, but as is, it seems Brutland acted entirely within his prerogative as leader of the Cabinet.

[Belschaft]

Having taken note of the actions of the government of Gatesville during the Milograd coup, including but not limited to the recognition of 'The South Pacific Social Republic' as the legitimate government and the deployment of members of the Gatesville Guard to The South Pacific in support of Milograd, the Cabinet of The South Pacific has no option but to consider Gatesville a hostile entity. As such the Cabinet orders the immediate severance of all diplomatic recognition of Gatesville and the closure of our embassy.
 
Two claims. Both true. it is not my fault if people insist on reading it in ways it is not written.

[Brutland and Norden]

The second one is problematic. "the deployment of members of the Gatesville Guard to The South Pacific in support of Milograd". With "deployment" it implies that there is a formal order to come to TSP and support Milograd.
 
I'm not going to apologize if only Gatesville read the statement that way. I read the statement that way too. Other people read it that way too. I am not blaming you for it. In fact, I had accepted responsibility for it.

[Belschaft]

Damn right Gatesville deployed troops to TSP. They didn't do it 'officially' but the distinction between an official order and Gate's saying 'Hey guys this super awesome coup has happened in TSP I'm not ordering you to deploy but Nev is already there and your free to go if you want' is one of semantics. GV, TWP and TP wanted to have their cake and eat it. The entire point of this was to respond to those who committed 'covert' support rather than pretend otherwise.

[Brutland and Norden]

You yourself counted how many... five or six? That's not deployment. They have dozens available. If it was a true deployment we would have seen more.

[Belschaft]

We were able to identify half a dozen from a mixture of flags and people being stupid enough to move from Gatesville. I have no idea how many more were in there we didn't spot; Elu might have stats on the number of WA's in GV.

[Brutland and Norden]

So in short, we don't have evidence to claim that they deployed. We are at fault in that, and that's why I decided to apologize.
 
Now, as to the matter of you asking me to resign the delegacy now, I'd have to respectfully decline that. My resignation will still come on schedule.

[Drugged Monkeys]

While Brutland may not have acted in the best way possible, I am very disappointed with how Belschaft reacted.Looking into my records, it doesn't appear that the statement to Gatesville was actually approved by a majority of the Cabinet. If there is evidence otherwise, I would be happy to take this back, but as is, it seems Brutland acted entirely within his prerogative as leader of the Cabinet.

 
Ok, what the hell happened? All I see is this thread and these statements.
Can someone clue me the hell in here?
 
I do know that the statements to all regions (TWP, TP, and GV) were all approved by at least 4 out of 6 cabinet members

[Drugged Monkeys]

So did Hile grossly break our laws by posting statements Ant should have posted?  Or the fact that Ant was told NOT to talk to The Pacific by the cabinet?  

 
I am confused Bellz, didn't you post the "Declare War on GV" Thread to the Assembly?

[Hileville]

That was my belief as well which is why it was posted. The Cabinet since I have been on it has always acted in the majority of instances as a collective body when setting executive policy on FA. Posting of statements from the Cabinet has never been locked to a particular person. We cannot and don't wait for inactive members to come around in order to post a statement. It is very clear that Ant has been very inactive this term. If you have an issue with the way this was handled and posted by me SB you can speak to me directly. I did talk to you about this before I posted them and you were pushing a speedy release as it had already been over a week. As for the GV situation a appreciate B&N taking care of it however a heads up to the cabinet would have been nice. I was under the impression that we voted on that statement and it having another statement issued by the Delegate that directly contradicts our statement from last night just didn't sit well with me. Bel, please don't begin calling for peoples resignations. That didn't go over very well the last time it happened. :p

[Southern Bellz]

To clear my comments, I don't have any problem with Hile or how the statements were issued.  My point was that Bels was claiming B&N was going over the MoFA's head, when the whole process was sort of done over the MoFA's head.  
 
I also am more than fine with B&N's actions, and I opened the tread on the assembly floor in order to start a discussion with the region, instead of doing everything BCD.

[Brutland and Norden]

As for the GV situation a appreciate B&N taking care of it however a heads up to the cabinet would have been nice. I was under the impression that we voted on that statement and it having another statement issued by the Delegate that directly contradicts our statement from last night just didn't sit well with me.

I would have likd to consult the cabinet before hand, really I do. But during the discussion it appeared to me that I cannot wait for everyone to concur because this is getting out of hand quickly. I needed to act fast. I consulted on IRC, unfortunately Belschaft was the only one online.