Proposal: Trial of Antariel

[A mean old man]

Based on the reasoning I have put forth in these posts,



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I would like to see Antariel tried for the following:[*:rh3nb1co] Due to Antariel's previous decision to withhold relevant information from the Court and misguide its judgment during the Black Pineapple incident, violation of Section 3 of Article 2 of the Charter of The South Pacific: <em class='bbc'>3. All members shall give its assistance to the Coalition of The South Pacific in any action it takes in accordance with the present charter</em>





[*:rh3nb1co]Due to Antariel's evident disregard for the security of this region, and due to Antariel's decision to withhold the information that Antariel was White Lance (who supported rogue delegate Luxembourg of allied region Balder when it would have been unpopular and unsafe to support this rogue publicly as Antariel), from TSP's government, and the probability that Antariel will continue to withhold information from TSP?s government in the future unless it is practically torn from Antariel: <em class='bbc'>2. Plans to purposely violate regulations in Article 2 in the future.</em>





[*:rh3nb1co]Due to Antariel's decision to continue to hide information from this Court and from members of TSP, and due to the previously mentioned nature of the nation of "White Lance": <em class='bbc'>Treason against The South Pacific shall consist only in levying war against them, in adhering to their enemies, <strong class='bbc'>conducting any violation of allegiance toward The South Pacific</strong>, especially the betrayal of the region through the waging of war, and/or consciously and purposely giving them aid and comfort to such enemies, foreign or domestic, in violation of Chapter I, Article 2, of the Charter.</em>

[Antariel]

Not guilty.1. No violation during the BP trial. WL was involved in *no* action against TSP - it only acted to warn Lux, as discussed elsewhere.2. You can't claim I'm going to violate the charter just because you think it might happen. Particularly as you are again twisting the reality of my warning of Lux, in a private capacity, to avoid an irate bunch of fendas who to me appeared to be after a legally elected delegate; what chance would a humble MoFA, in a region where the UDL held the MoJ, have against that?3. Like hell there was any treason. My allegiance to this region was never compromised. This is lame attempt to continue to smear me.If once again this farce is proceeded with, I would ask that Uni not be my judge as he is biased against me, same grounds as the last time I posted this claim. And if anyone suggests AMOM take his place, I may burst from laughing too hard. Anyone else would be fine. Unless you bring in Krull or something Hil, if you'd be my defence counsel, I'd much appreciate it.

[Unibot]

Not guilty.

1. No violation during the BP trial. WL was involved in *no* action against TSP - it only acted to warn Lux, as discussed elsewhere.

2. You can't claim I'm going to violate the charter just because you think it might happen. Particularly as you are again twisting the reality of my warning of Lux, in a private capacity, to avoid an irate bunch of fendas who to me appeared to be after a legally elected delegate; what chance would a humble MoFA, in a region where the UDL held the MoJ, have against that?

3. Like hell there was any treason. My allegiance to this region was never compromised. This is lame attempt to continue to smear me.

If once again this farce is proceeded with, I would ask that Uni not be my judge as he is biased against me, same grounds as the last time I posted this claim. And if anyone suggests AMOM take his place, I may burst from laughing too hard. Anyone else would be fine. Unless you bring in Krull or something

Hil, if you'd be my defence counsel, I'd much appreciate it.

I think a part of being a good judge is to try gain legitimacy and respect in the eyes of the accused; the accused has brought up a lot of allegations against the organization I lead and is motivated strictly against it, so I don't see him regarding any ruling on this matter made by me (whether impartial or not) as legitimate and I would rather resolve this issue than let it stand.

I will recuse myself and appoint a replacement. Since I do not have an associate judge at the present moment, I would appreciate it if some ambitious, legal-minded and non-UDL member would approach me about heading this case. I am sorry for not having a decision at the present moment for you, Ant, but I trust you would prefer the wheels of justice turn a tad slower than spin wrongfully against you.

[Antariel]

Slower rather than wrongful spinning is always welcome. Thankyou for stepping aside.

[Hileville]

I have agreed to represent Antariel on these charges.



I must state that AMOM is using a previous version of the Charter to levy this complaint. The current version of the Charter conflicts with what AMOM has introduced:



- "Section 3 of Article 2 of the Charter of The South Pacific: 3. All members shall give its assistance to the Coalition of The South Pacific in any action it takes in accordance with the present charter" - <strong class='bbc'>Section 3 of Article 2 of the CURRENT Charter reads: </strong>

Refrain from working or plotting against the Coalition of The South Pacific, or giving assistance to any state or region which the the Coalition of The South Pacific is taking preventive or enforcement action.

- "violation of Chapter I, Article 2, of the Charter." - <strong class='bbc'>The current version of the Charter dose not include Chapters so your reference is incorrect. This clause that you are quoting is not contained within the current version of the Charter.</strong>



<a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=10057'>LINK TO CURRENT CHARTER</a> | <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=8043'>LINK TO THE BELIEVED VERSION AMOM WAS USING</a>

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I would also like to state that at the time of the incident in question with Balder there was no treaty adopted with the region and therefore the statement of him acting against an ally of The South Pacific is a stretch.



The Definition of Ally as defined by dictionary.com is:

al?ly   [v. uh-lahy; n. al-ahy, uh-lahy]? Show IPA verb, -lied, -ly?ing, noun, plural -lies.

verb (used with object)

1.? to unite formally, as by treaty, league, marriage, or the like (usually followed by with? or to ): Russia allied itself to France.

2.? to associate or connect by some mutual relationship, as resemblance or friendship.

verb (used without object)

3.? to enter into an alliance;? join; unite.

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Also I would like to state that I am sure if an official request was made by the Ministry of Justice that my client would have gladly admitted to being the identity of White Lance. However he was attacked by several members of this region instead of a formal request being made.

[Hileville]

I apologize to the Court for the messiness of that post but it is 2 AM.The defense would like to submit a motion for these potential charges to be denied by the Ministry of Justice.

[Antariel]

Indeed, what Hil said. Even if he said it at 2am

[Antariel]

Also; Balder itself accepted my actions.

Check out this post I made in January on the Balder forums, and subsequently forgot about. Turns out when I was posting suggesting you go to Balder I was subconsciously right;


Posted: Jan 26 2012, 01:27 AM Forum Nordic HallView full topic

I know this is much belated, but felt I should clear things up once and for all.

For those who've forgotten (I've been inactive) this is Ant/White Lance/Black Pineapple/any other combination of fruit and colours I could come up with.

I was made aware of the coup from several sources; I was not made aware of the email hacking, leading me to leak the info to the delegate at the time. When it came out that he had apparently email hacked, I dropped my support, apologised to Fotar, etc. My beef was with attempted tyranny; Lux acting as he did was *not* my intention.

Currently I'm TSP's ambassador to *various* places, and advising delegate Hil on Foreign Affairs. Once again, I'm sorry for any inconvenience caused by me delaying the coup of the democratic types. Next time, I'll poke my sources with (democratic) sticks until they give me the full details! The best of luck in maintaining a democratic region, free from oppression, tyrants, and hard boiled eggs.

Linky, before someone claims I've edited it;

<a class='bbc_url' href='http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/7597372/1/#post8023558'>http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/topic/759.../1/#post8023558</a>

There follows a CoS post thanking me for the information. There was no move to act against me by Balder in light of this (the closest it came was a motion in Osiris by Dali, which was dropped in light of wide opposition).

AMOM, Bels, Unibot, and Hil are ALL Balder members, and have had access to this for over a month now. Bit easier than IP tracing, isn't it. If I was deliberately trying to hide stuff etc, I wouldn't have posted this apology.

[Antariel]

And a November post by Black Aspens linking me to White Lance, and confirming my account of recanting when the facts were made clear to me, in the same thread that this post is in;

<a class='bbc_url' href='http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/single/?p=8013096&t=7502045'>http://w11.zetaboards.com/Balder/single/?p=8013096&t=7502045</a>

Heck, if the supposed 'victims' of WL don't care about, and understand my actions, this case has even *less* grounds to exist.

[Hileville]

Upon the disclosure of the above by my client I would further like to note that the following TSP citizens also have citizenship in Balder and therefore had access to the confession of White Lance's identity:Todd McCloudMahajCI CerebellaRebel-topiaHaxstreeCodgerSheepa - Not a citizen but has a forum accountThank You.

[Antariel]

Given the amount of cross-forum activity, and fact I informed the delegate.... I'm really having trouble with the remaining charges.Unless you're going to persist in the bizarre claim that I'm NOT BP (in which case I'd like to run for office, please)..And once again, in light of all this, I'd like AMOM's post edited and for him to be warned for defamation, please.

[A mean old man]

Initially, I would like to request that the link in this thread to the Charter be fixed, as this was what linked me to an obsolete version:
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Continuing:

Evidently you can be just as sneaky as I can, Antariel. You knew that the information on White Lance was made public; however, you chose to deliberately bait/frustrate us here when we asked you about it, simply out of your total inability to make a single concession to anyone you disagree with and out of the joy you take in committing acts of defiance. I was not made aware of the identity of White Lance by Hileville, and if Uni was, he had forgotten. It was only until about halfway through our questioning of you here did we realize that you were WL, and we had not seen your apology in Balder?s forums. I suppose the evidence in this proposal is now fairly weak due to what you have conveniently conjured up. The proposal might as well be discarded, as I doubt the trial would be successful.

It would have been appropriate for Hileville to have done us a favor and informed us during that heated discussion when you, Antariel, so superciliously chose to deliberately aggravate and provoke us.

The fact that Haxstree/Anur-Sanur/Frak, an enemy of many of the other feeders as well as of TSP, was residing here when I revealed his identity as Frak, reminded me that you still do as well. While it was supposedly impossible to conclude publicly that Haxstree was Frak, your betrayal has been known for months. Your closeness to Hax within TSP has always agitated me, as I sensed his tendencies if not knew that he was hiding something from the moment I first began interacting with him, and I still wonder about how much you knew and chose to conceal. I still do and always will find the fact that you are allowed to remain in this region and that you are still able to run for the office of Minister of Foreign Affairs, the duties of which you mocked and denigrated after what occurred between you and The Pacific, revolting. The fact that you are a member of TSP?s army, which I would hope would come to its? allies? aid in a desperate time (during which I worry you would attempt to derail its efforts or would remain behind), also perturbs me. I find your very presence within The South Pacific?s government and your continued attitude of disdain towards The Pacific and its citizens horrendously offensive.

Had you been from The Pacific acting against The South Pacific undercover and alone, you would not have lasted a day in my region after you were revealed. We would never let anyone who has a history of attempting to overthrow legitimate feeder governments into the NPO, and would never harbor an outlaw from another feeder/sinker region. We have tried to show the utmost support for the other feeders and sinkers and have given them military aid when it was possible for us to do so. I personally believe that the outcome of the BP incident was a travesty of the justice system that is maintained in TSP and is an insult to the alliance TSP maintains between TP. I do not speak for my superiors, but I do not think that I stand alone here.

Hileville knew that his sentence, which was equivalent in the real world to shooting you with a Nerf gun and having you sit out of the game for a short period of time before you returned with all your original abilities, would be unpopular with the majority. I think I?m being fairly accurate when I say that it still is. I don?t resent you for your decision, Hileville, but I?ll never be happy with it, and I believe its aftermath to be more than unsatisfactory.

?and, to facetiously sum up Ant?s response before he even makes it: I?m from TP which therefore means I am biased against him because he attacked my region (Duh?), I should only be here doing EC work even though I am legally a TSP citizen and have been participating in these forums for a while, I don?t have a bone in my body that isn?t evil, I?m strange, I don?t have the right to speak out against the great Antariel, I should be warned, and I tried to dig up old evidence on him which I believed could now be relevant in a trial against him because I find him to be a living, breathing insult and should thus I should be killed.

I?m going to erase that ?defamatory? paragraph in my news post not because I am bending to your will or because I fear a warning from this Court (which was already denied), but because I?m sick of watching you spouting your righteous drivel (awaits a NO,U-style response to that comment). I?d like to conclude this, but I believe that it is within my rights to state how I still feel about the BP incident and about its aftermath.

[Hileville]

It would have been appropriate for Hileville to have done us a favor and informed us during that heated discussion when you, Antariel, so superciliously chose to deliberately aggravate and provoke us.

I would have had I remembered at the time. I remembered shortly after you posted this thread AMOM.

I still do and always will find the fact that you are allowed to remain in this region and that you are still able to run for the office of Minister of Foreign Affairs, the duties of which you mocked and denigrated after what occurred between you and The Pacific

Antariel is not allowed to run for any office until December. He was appointed as an adviser in which I reached out to Krull at the time to ask if The Pacific would be okay with this. I was told that there would not be a problem.

Hileville knew that his sentence, which was equivalent in the real world to shooting you with a Nerf gun and having you sit out of the game for a short period of time before you returned with all your original abilities, would be unpopular with the majority. I think I?m being fairly accurate when I say that it still is. I don?t resent you for your decision, Hileville, but I?ll never be happy with it, and I believe its aftermath to be more than unsatisfactory.

I don't appreciate you calling me out on this as the sentence was a decision of the cabinet. Which included at the time Carta, Unibot, and myself. We also consulted with the forum admins at the time and came to a unanimous decision on what the sentence was. I can assure I was not the one who came up with the sentence that was decided on.


EDIT: I have used my global mod powers and edited the link for the Minister of Justice.

[Unibot]

I can assure I was not the one who came up with the sentence that was decided on.

... you came to the cabinet with the sentence you wanted, Carta and I obliged. Why was the MoJ not informed that Ant was WL? This was very important to the case when we initially impeached Ant. Hell why didn't any of these Baldies speak up?

[A mean old man]

I would have had I remembered at the time. I remembered shortly after you posted this thread AMOM.

I'll take your word for it.

Antariel is not allowed to run for any office until December. He was appointed as an adviser in which I reached out to Krull at the time to ask if The Pacific would be okay with this. I was told that there would not be a problem.

The point on his military involvement still stands, as does the fact that he will be able to run for the position which he totally disgraced last year in the relatively near future. While "adviser" is essentially not a position in TSP's government, I find his other activity disturbing and still believe his sentence to be overly light.

I don't appreciate you calling me out on this as the sentence was a decision of the cabinet. Which included at the time Carta, Unibot, and myself. We also consulted with the forum admins at the time and came to a unanimous decision on what the sentence was. I can assure I was not the one who came up with the sentence that was decided on.

Then I shot the messenger. Apologies. This does not change the fact that I, among others, still feel the way I do about this. I don't expect anything to change, but I want to voice my frustration.

[Hileville]

Because I didn't know he was WL until January right before he made the post on Balder's forum. Also check again Uni SB was the one who proposed the sentence to us.

[Hileville]

Also the MoJ delivered the sentence not me.

[Unibot]

Because I didn't know he was WL until January right before he made the post on Balder's forum. Also check again Uni SB was the one who proposed the sentence to us.

No, SB submitted a very very aggressive sentence and you submitted a different sentence.

EDIT: Oh she submitted that proposal, then Todd commented and she changed her proposal. NVM.

[Hileville]

And then she submitted the one that we went with.

[Antariel]

AMOM, you are entitled to your misguided views, but the sentance was done in November; due process was followed. You criticise my attitude to TP, but it doesn' stop you opposing our legal system, does it?'conveniently conjured up' = wrote in an open forum, which you and everyone here had access to.I wish I could have been psychic on Hax's motivations like you. It would have saved a lot of time. Unfortunately, I wasn't. And to be fair, as Hax he did a LOT in the region, despite undermining it as Frak. The trial will cover this I guess.Oh, and to save me the time of a wall of text critique;'I?m from TP which therefore means I am biased against him because he attacked my region (Duh?), - well done. :clap:'I should only be here doing EC work even though I am legally a TSP citizen and have been participating in these forums for a while', - err, no you haven't, really. MPA was only as a TP rep.'I don?t have a bone in my body that isn?t evil' probably a few. Nobody is entirely evil, even Bill Gates!'I don?t have the right to speak out against the great Antariel' - this is my standard response to everyone Don't take it personally. People seem to ignore it though. Can't think why.'I should be warned' - well, yes, but I'll settle with having the defamation gone.'I should be killed' - rich coming from the region which sentenced me to death? I wouldn't issue death threats over NS.@Uni; Why didn't Balder speak up? Because nobody CARED; it wasn't an important issue.As AMOM has suggested this proposal be disgarded, I ask the MoJ drop charges, please.