Quandary

[Todd McCloud]

For all intents and purposes, I think these elections have shown that our current election law is flawed and not without problems. I don't think the blame should fall on any one person; most of us voted for it and read it over. Personally I believe it's a combination of it being the first time and the fact that this is happening all of a sudden. But, it's where we are, and there's no reason to spin our wheels. We're in this situation, so now we need to figure out how to get out of it.


Basically, I've noticed these problems:[*:3lo2bqq7]Non-Citizens: are they allowed to run in elections, or not? No rule states otherwise.

[*:3lo2bqq7]The issue of the endorsement cap: how should it be enforced during the election process? (Also, MOJ, your attention is needed in <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=9929'>this</a> thread).

[*:3lo2bqq7]How should we vote? Last time we had elections I was told to set it up in a poll. I really don't like doing that, but the laws on that haven't changed or been specified.
We've also had feelings hurt, tense moments, and other problems. Let's calm down and discuss things.

I don't believe I've done a good job as the election commissioner, either. It's difficult for one person to do, but that's not an excuse. So, next election there will certainly need to be at least another one to help carry the load and double-check that things have been done well.

[Belschaft]

[*]Citizens: are they allowed to run in elections, or not? No rule states otherwise.

Are you sure you don't mean Non-Citizens?

[Todd McCloud]

[quote name="Belschaft"] [quote name='"Todd McCloud"] [*]Citizens: are they allowed to run in elections' date=' or not? No rule states otherwise. [/quote']

Are you sure you don't mean Non-Citizens? [/quote]

Yeah. Fixed.

[North Moldova]

What's your concern with the polls?

[Todd McCloud]

What's your concern with the polls?

I personally feel that a thread where everyone can see and only citizens can post stating who they vote for would be better. It would remove some anonymity, but it would be easier to follow said voting.

[North Moldova]

I suppose that would be at least a bit more fool or cheat-proof. However, the polls are already citizen-only correct? Plus, like you said the loss of anonymity is a bit unsettling.

[Topid]

IMO non-citizens should not be able to run. When I originally wrote 'any WA in the region' I specifically meant to contrast the 'be a WA in the region for 30 days' requirement of the old system. Didn't really think about citizenship, and I'm guessing most read it the same way. It definitely doesn't make since to have the current requirement where you can run to lead the region but not vote. As for endorsement caps, tis indeed a mess.I don't like polls. I like being able to confirm no one somehow has two accounts and gets two votes... Looking over the citizen list (the accounts with 'citizen' group) it is pretty small, actually so maybe that isn't a problem.

[Haxstree]

I am for open voting, it leads to more transparency and it ensures no fishy business. As for the non-citizen thing, yes that is confusing...especially since myself and Anitoch I believe, were accepted by Todd but never actually went to the citizenship thread.My interpretation of what was going on was that anyone who was accepted by Todd during the announcement period was fast-tracked to citizenship.Otherwise, why would you telegram everyone in the region about a delegate election to then tell them they couldn't participate if citizenship wasn't being accepted during this election. :blink: So yes, in the future there should be more clarity in that regard.I'm not sure what is going on with the caps, but it looks like Bel and Carta came to some sort of agreement, so no need to get excited there. Next time just enforce the rules. If there is a law, the delegate should enforce it. Seems simple to me.The delegate's attitude to the cap should be less of this: :dance: and more of this: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

[Antariel]

Non-citizens should be able to runNone over the endo cap until after the preliminariesVote should stay as poll - secret ballot is more democratic.IMHO.And sorry to King J who I seem to have upset :/

[North Moldova]

Wouldn't it be kind of weird if non-citizens were allowed to run but not allowed to vote?

[Tsrill]

I like polls because you can vote anonimously, i.e., without someone going "you voted for him and not for me! Why?????"

[Rebel-topia]

Wouldn't it be kind of weird if non-citizens were allowed to run but not allowed to vote?

That doesnt make sense. If you cant vote, why should you be able to run?



Im Also for the polls. Voting should be anonymous.

[htz31361849782]

I think we will find less people voting if it not ammoniums. I will not vote it is nobody's bussiness who I vote for.

[Hileville]

As I go through the discussions still in the Assembly I will be trying to get discussions started on topics that are important without putting too much of my own beliefs in it. This is one of the few circumstances where I will be adding my opinions frequently.

IN REGARDS TO TODD'S POST:
These problems didn't go away with the most recent election. I believe one problem with elections is WE DO NOT HAVE A FULL ELECTION COMMISSION. (Hint to Bel to start looking for 2 additional EC's)

As far as non-citizens running I think we need to seriously consider the pros and cons here.

Todd asked D2N to give input on <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=9929'>this thread</a>. Uni can you please take a look at this so you are aware of the questions that came up here. In the meantime we need to have a serious discussion on the endorsement law.

Let the discussion begin.

[Antariel]

I'll go first with my endorsement idea.Enforce the cap throughout round one for all candidates. thus they can tart to 100, but no more. In the second round, when only two remain, remove the cap. If any other candidate goes over the cap, give them fair warning, but if they are doing it deliberately banject them from the region for the duration of the election.That should keep disgruntled candidates from trying to win after not gaining forum support, and stop one candidate waiting for the other to catch up, like this time XD

[Carondia]

I have always like anonymous, yet secure, voting for elections in polls but voting on Laws in Publice.

[Daytime to Night]

I definitely prefer anonymous voting, but we may want to look at using an alternative system for this than the forum polls.

[htz31361849782]

We used to have a law that you had to be a citizen to run for office and to become a citizen you had to have been in the region for at least 6 months. If we changed that it should be changed back IMHO.

[Antariel]

6 months...that'll just cut into our numbers badly, people will leave and join a region they can start straight away, I reckon.I'd let anyone who bothers to make a forum profile and accept the charter vote, suspending citizenship entrance only for actual ongoing elections.If Frak wants sleepers, he'll just make them wait 6 months regardless; he's pretty persistant.

[Hileville]

I think almost the entire cabinet with the exception of King J wouldn't have been able to run if we had a 6 month citizenship law.

[Antariel]

I...just about would, by a couple of days

[Carondia]

I definitely prefer anonymous voting, but we may want to look at using an alternative system for this than the forum polls.

I think I have a complex Idea for that. It wouldn't insure TOTAL anonymity but simple being anonymous excluding the Election Commissioners.

When a Forum is created there should be an option for 'Mod Que'-ing posts. In this way a post would be displayed only to Election Commissioners and they could count votes in a way to {1} insure that there are no cheaters, whilst {2} ensuring an anonymous election. Of course it would be considered a crime to publicize the votes and they would be destroyed immediately following the count.

As to the six month Citizenship Law I think that can't be afforded. The amount of time a person waits to have their application filled is plenty. Also, in the past, I have looked at the option of having a "post-based Citizenship System" in which a Member must get at least ten forum posts or ten RMB posts (none of that spam) to become a Citizen and then they become a Citizen automatically if there are now objections. That was an idea, however, that I proposed for a UCR with a Founder-created region.

[Southern Bellz]

Ok here is my solution to voting.Voting remains as a poll, but before people vote, they just have to declare that they showed up to vote.Similar to IRL voting in the US. You sign in and then vote. That way if there are more votes than people who signed in to vote, you know there is voter fraud.

[Belschaft]

A simple yet elegant solution. I like it

[Rebel-topia]

Ok here is my solution to voting.

Voting remains as a poll, but before people vote, they just have to declare that they showed up to vote.

Similar to IRL voting in the US. You sign in and then vote. That way if there are more votes than people who signed in to vote, you know there is voter fraud.

That works for me! Im for this