Review of post-KRO Osiris

[Sandaoguo]

So, with a new constitution and delegate elections underway, it's soon going to be time to review our position on Osiris. The previous Cabinet statements on this did not extend full recognition, and it's my view that the controlling statement is the one released right after the dissolution of the Kemetic Republic. That statement said we would review things once a popular constitution was voted on and once the region conducted free and fair democratic elections.

[Escade]

I'm thrilled with this development and am hoping for the best in Osiris.  I do feel that we may be able to start fresh with the region in terms of treaties.  Let's discuss when you are available. 

[Awesomiasa]

This is a welcomed change. I hope that the Osirian government and the people of Osiris will adhere to a peaceful transition to a democratic, popularly-elected government, that is stable and works in the interest of the people of Osiris.

 

Also, Lord Ravenclaw has been elected Delegate of Osiris, pursuant to here.

 

I hope that discussions on Osiris between parties will be made privy to the rest of this Cabinet and/or the region at large at the earliest convenience, if this is possible.

[Rebel-topia]

I get the whole "Osiris is a sister region/fellow GCR/ect, and we should be helping her grow up big and strong like us senior-citizen-esque GCRs, but just because they've created a (new) constitution, doesnt mean everythings actually ok there... Id really like to see the new government in action for a while... I really think a month or so without scandal could warrant a change of my mind.

[Sandaoguo]

I agree with RT, here. There is a lot of room for things to go sour in Osiris. The new constitution mirrors the KRO one that caused so many problems. The only real change has been an increase in the number of members of the legislature, though the legislature is still not totally open to everybody. To my understanding, Raven chose Georgie (Madjack) as his Vice Delegate, and Madjack was Pharaoh when Osiris really started to be dysfunctional (around the time of the first Empire coup). Raven himself is not exactly a stable political figure. He's flip-flopped a lot, taking whatever side he thinks at the time would "bring stability" to Osiris. While I'm not saying he's likely to participate in another coup, that's the kind of attitude that creates a permissive atmosphere for one.

 

I'd also like to add that I'm concerned about the foreign policy Raven ran on. His plan is to go forward with Venico's proposed "Territories Act," meaning Osiris is going to become an imperial GCR, raiding regions and holding them as colonies. This means we will likely run into Osiris on opposite sides of the battlefield in major missions, as we go forward with more defenses and liberations. It's my opinion that people like Cormac, Georgie, and Raven will view that as a declaration of hostility. If we ever sign another treaty with them, we'd be forced to limit even more the defender side of the NSA. This is especially compounded because the UIAF and Osiris are building very close relations, and we're already being forced to not defend against any UIAF missions.

[Sandaoguo]

Douria contacted me over IRC asking is for an embassy exchange. Thoughts

 

e: One other thing: The Declaration of War Against Gatesville bans Douria from out forums, among other things. So that's one barrier to TSP-Osiris relations we'd need to take care of.

[Sandaoguo]

So my official recommendation is to punt this down the road. Raven has demanded the resignation of his Vice Delegate, which shows that stability in the region is still largely nonexistent. 

[Kris Kringle]

*Sighs*

 

Don't they ever get tired of so much infighting? Anyway, let's wait and see how this develops. I wanted us to have an embassy with Osiris, but not after this. We should wait and ensure that they are really stable.

[Rebel-topia]

FUN!

 

I read through the whole thread, and all the links to other threads that went along with it. Im seriously concerned for Osiris. As a region, shes a teenager - DEMANDING to be treated like an adult, and still acting like a 5 year old. I would not support any attempt to bring ourselves into involvement with Osi at this time, or for a very long time, for that matter...

[Sandaoguo]

Douria contacted me over IRC this afternoon. Here is the conversation we had:

Code:

<Treize_Dreizehn> Heyo.
<Treize_Dreizehn> Pokin' ya about the progress on the diplomatic front.
<Glen-Rhodes> Which one?
<Treize_Dreizehn> Uh, Osiris/TSP embassies and also information on my PNG status.
<Treize_Dreizehn> which are not associated with each other
<Glen-Rhodes> I brought it up with the Cabinet. Those who responded regarding the embassy request were heavily influenced by what happened with Georgie.
<Glen-Rhodes> There was no formal vote, but it looks like it's going to be kicked down the road a bit longer.
<Glen-Rhodes> As for your PNG status, that requires the Assembly to amend the declaration of war against Gatesville. They've been preoccupied with Belschaft's bill.
<Treize_Dreizehn> Yeah I was told that a while back, given that we've had some time between then and now I was hoping the embassy question could be revisited.
<Glen-Rhodes> I can bring it up again, but there are Cabinet members who are very reluctant to get involved with Osiris again.
<Glen-Rhodes> Just the general sense of instability, rather than any specific incident.
<Treize_Dreizehn> It's fine. A definitive answer, to me, is much better than none at all.
<Treize_Dreizehn> All we're looking towards is reestablishment of forum embassies.
<Treize_Dreizehn> I'd hope that's a simple matter, given that we already reocgnize each other, and are on fairly friendly terms.
<Glen-Rhodes> I'll bring it up, and mention that point, but I can't make any promises.
<Treize_Dreizehn> They'll see this log, correct?
<Glen-Rhodes> I'll also prod RT to bring up the PNG thing in the Assembly.
<Glen-Rhodes> I can post the log, if you want.
<Treize_Dreizehn> That's secondary, not even a big issue.
<Treize_Dreizehn> Yeah if you'd like.
<Glen-Rhodes> Alright, will do.
<Treize_Dreizehn> In fact, don't even worry about the PNG status thing, the decision, one way or another on relations is more important at this point.

[Kris Kringle]

I'll be honest here and say that I personally have no problems with us officially recognising the OFO and establishing embassies. I don't have time to elaborate right now, but basically it comes down to the fact that their existence as a government is real, and we get no benefit from ignoring them.

[Sandaoguo]

If recognition is done on those terms, then okay, I can live with that. But it has to be on those terms: we're recognizing Osiris as a pragmatic matter, not because we condone how the OFO came to power.

[Rebel-topia]

I still think its too early to start moving their direction.

[Sandaoguo]

I tend to agree, RT, but the OFO isn't going anywhere soon. If we continue to refuse diplomatic recognition, then the current generation of players in Osiris will decide that TSP-Osiris relations are never going to be a thing. It's a two-way conversation. Keep in mind that recognition, especially on pragmatic terms, does not mean we have to do anything with Osiris. It just means we recognize that the OFO exists and it's the government of the region.

[Rebel-topia]

As long as we dont have this discussion every 2 weeks...

[Kris Kringle]

It's really a matter of being pragmatic. The OFO is the government of Osiris. There is no other competing institution, and Osirians recognise it as such. It does no good to not recognise them at this point, and we could gain much, should we choose to. The least we should do is recognise them.

[Escade]

I agree with Kris. I like several people from Osiris and the fact is that we've had a strong relationship with them before. Due to the actions of some of their members with the recent Topid thing (basically Cormac helping out), I think they would have TSP's back in any security situation.

 

With the way things are looking with TEP being iffy and UDL being as it is, we need more allies and since we are relying on TNI it doesn't hurt to join the circle of the independent sphere fully. 

 

GR, if you feel uncomfortable taking the lead on things with Osiris, let us know and we'll do it.  Thanks. 

[Sandaoguo]

I don't feel comfortable with exploring an alliance with Osiris and I strongly advise against it. It would harm the balancing project we've been working on. But more importantly, the chances for more scandals are pretty high. Like I said originally, I'm willing to accept recognition of the OFO as a pragmatic matter. An alliance is a bit too much too fast for me. 😕

Also, Osiris isn't independent. It's 100% raider. We shouldn't seek out an alliance just because our current options aren't working out completely smoothly. I also wouldn't discount the TEP treaty just yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kris Kringle]

Personally I wouldn't mind an alliance with Osiris, but what I think is a higher priority and less controversial to our Cabinet is to recognize them first. So, do we agree on recognizing the OFO as a pragmatic matter?

[Escade]

Yes. 

[Kris Kringle]

Do we issue a statement or just submit an embassy application at their forum?

[Sandaoguo]

I can write up a statement tomorrow.

[Southern Bellz]

I am against an Osi alliance at this time as well, I am 100% for formalizing relations.

[Sandaoguo]

What do you guys think of this statement? I wrote it to be concise, not too fluffy, and not too harsh.

 

----

 

After careful consideration of the political environment and the interests of the Coalition of The South Pacific, the Cabinet has decided to extend diplomatic recognition to the Osiris Fraternal Order, the current ruling government of Osiris. This decision was made based upon a pragmatic political analysis that the Fraternal Order is in power, has the support of a considerable number of native Osirans, and is not likely to leave the field anytime soon. Additionally, the Cabinet believed that the recent constitutional referendum and region-wide elections for the Pharaoh and the Keeper were positive developments from the Astarial regime and the way the Fraternal Order came to power.

 

Diplomatic recognition should not be mistaken with an alliance. The Cabinet is still weary of forging interconnections between the Coalition and the Fraternal Order. We also do not condone the manner in which the Fraternal Order came to power, though we recognize that it may have been the best of a handful of bad options. We will keep an eye towards the future, assessing the long-term situation of Osiris on a regular basis.

 

Lastly, political reluctance should not be equated with hostility. While the Cabinet is reluctant to extend a political relationship with the Fraternal Order, the New Southern Army has successfully cooperated with the Sekhmet Legion. We congratulate the recent military victories by the Sekhmet Legion, in cooperation with the New Southern Army, and encourage this type of cooperation in the future.

[Southern Bellz]

I think the first paragraph is perfect.  I get what you are doing with the second paragraph, but I believe we should keep anything that will cause a stray from the narrative we want to ourselves.

 

This is about rebuilding relations.