Dear South Pacific,

[Fudgie]

Dear members of The South Pacific,I stand before you today as a member of this region. Just like you, I love belonging to this region, and I love what it stands for. The friendship, the freedom, and the openess that is The South Pacific. There are many people, from our "old guard" to our newest members that make this region our home, and make it what it is today. We are constantly evolving and changing, and we have a rich history that we are all a part of, whether we have been here for 5 years, or for one day. It saddens me to learn that there is an external element that want to annex our region to make it part of a more NS wide invader/defender network. Because we keep to ourselves, and enjoy stability based on friendship and history, we are seen as a soft target. They are demanding that we increase our activity levels, both on our forums and within NS, and then they will consider letting us be. I say how dare they hold us to ransom on who we are? NS is suffering a decline across the board. Inactivity is peaking everywhere. The solution isn't to take over a region of peaceful people who like their peace and stability. The solution is to offer more to people, to reinvent the game as opposed to creating friction. If they move in, they will surely throw out all the older members of the region, and those who support the current lifestyle that we all enjoy. We'd be doomed to wandering, finding a region that might offer what we already had, but never truly belonging. Do we let these invaders hold us and what we have fought for to ransom? Surely not! Let's speak out and tell them how we feel about our region. Use the voices that we all have in this region on our council floor, and tell them how you feel! We pride ourselves in this region on our ability to have an open, peaceful government, one that takes every voice into account when making it's decisions. Let your voice be heard and speak how you feel about these people trying to make our decisions for us. We will not be held to ransom by anyone. We fought for our independance, and I will do everything in my power to make sure that we maintain our independance and our history. But I can't do this alone. I need you to speak up and truly let these invaders know how you feel about our region, about our government, about our way of life, and most importantly, about your independance and your right to choose who governs YOU.We are THE South Pacific. We will not be told how to play this game. We hold our own power, and we make the choices for our region. Speak out in this thread, speak out on our RMB, or in our council. But make your voice heard. Because every nation counts in this region - we don't discriminate on age, length of time, government position etc. You are all members of our council, and your voice counts!

[j delight1361849785]

Right on, TSP!Fudgie, could you please tell us who is involved in this "offer?"

[Todd McCloud]

Well, if you're referring to what Brom said, yeah, I can agree with that.I've no part in this, though. I think the ideal would be for NS to suddenly "jolt" and we see a sudden spike in people joining, but not abandoners joining, people who actually will use their nation(s) for years to come. I'm merely scratching my head trying to find out what would and would not work. Raiding will not work - it will cause dissension and could be a sign that "the end is near". A much better approach, in my own opinion, would be to bring in new people who would want to help get this region started again. Not a threat, but I tend to think of the feeders as leaders to the NS community. And I don't think they should boot any of you - if anything, your help would be most valuable.

[Caer Rialis]

I think, Todd, it is a bit more than what Brom said, though the post that nation made in which a violent takeover of a feeder was exactly what this game needed, was telling. Throughout the posts on the Neutral Territory, I see a chilling idea of NationStates, a NationStates built solely on conflict, on war between raider/defenders, one which states with one of the peaceful feeders, either the Pacific, the East Pacific, or our beloved South Pacific, being transformed into a feeder haven of invasion. If this happens, I see NationStates becoming a grim game in which there is only war.



The intent of the Neutral Territory, which I myself had to crash as I do not believe until it had been open for several days, a single person from the South Pacific was invited, is to find a way to increase activity in NationStates. Excellent. We have all seen a decline over the last year, when no feeder now has more than 3500 nations, from a high of over 6000 for many. However, the prevailing idea, despite some lonely calls otherwise, is for conflict, as conflict supposedly makes the blood flow.



These are proposals made by those who do not know us, who do not know the culture of this region, built upon community and mutual trust, not a similar interest in who can cause more trouble, or take over more regions. These are proposals made by individuals who operate on the mistaken belief that, as all nations begin within the feeders, all nations have not only an interest, but the right to <strong class='bbc'>dictate</strong> to the feeders. These are largely people who have left the feeders for their own founded regions, who developed a culture there, and did not take part in the development of the feeders.



My friends, if this prediction holds, we wil face a dire situation here. We need to stand firm and tell these folk in plain terms, "No."

[Todd McCloud]

I agree those who propose such things are out of line. The belief that conflict will stir action comes from the fact most former and current raiders / defenders have noticed if a region is invaded, activity skyrockets, nationalism becomes important, and people spring to work (or they subsequently give up... it's happened before). So, they attempt to bring it to a larger scale: what would happen if a feeder went through a conflict, or caused one? Surely that would do something. Trouble is, no one knows. And quite frankly I don't think ousting a group of the old guard here would be an intelligent decision. But that's just me, I guess.

[Fudgie]

But this is the issue at hand. Never in my 4 years of NS have I seen a raider group take over a region and keep the old guard. They have always booted them as they pose a threat to the new regime and the ideals they are trying to impose on the region. This is the current threat to the South Pacific. They want to move in, and they want to take us over to "increase activity". They've handed us more or less an ultimatum, and it's disgusting. I will not stand for, and I hope to God that noone else will stand for it. They have NO RIGHT to tell us how to conduct our region, and tell us that they will take it from us if we don't comply.

[Brutland and Norden]

Sorry, but can anybody enlighten me about this stuff? I am sooooo utterly clueless.

[Caer Rialis]

I'll get you a report sometime today, Brutland and Norden. I'm a little swamped at work now

[Todd McCloud]

But this is the issue at hand. Never in my 4 years of NS have I seen a raider group take over a region and keep the old guard. They have always booted them as they pose a threat to the new regime and the ideals they are trying to impose on the region. This is the current threat to the South Pacific. They want to move in, and they want to take us over to "increase activity". They've handed us more or less an ultimatum, and it's disgusting. I will not stand for, and I hope to God that noone else will stand for it. They have NO RIGHT to tell us how to conduct our region, and tell us that they will take it from us if we don't comply.

I know you're still trying to trust me, but leave the worrying to me. You just keep getting endos - I'll keep my eyes open and my ears up. I don't want the people here to be booted. If someone is to be elected and is good whereby they don't boot people, that's one thing. But I'm a former raider, and many of the current ones owe me something. So, in short, I will find out prior to an attack.

[Guest]

So the idea of this Neutral Territory folks is that we are to be invaded and that we should be glad about that? Funny.

[Caer Rialis]

So the idea of this Neutral Territory folks is that we are to be invaded and that we should be glad about that? Funny.

It's one of the prevailing views of the Neutral Territory that I can see. Some there have assumed that, as all nations begin in the feeders, that they all remain citizens of the feeders and that the feeders belong to them. It's a faulty assumption, for any number of reasons.

[Napieria]

The whole thing smacks of hypocrisy. Why should they, in their region, be concerned about the activity level of this, our region? The answer is that ultimately, they're not. They're looking for an <em class='bbc'>excuse</em> to invade. That's all.



If they're to be concerned about activity levels on a forum, it should be their own.



Because here's what invading <em class='bbc'>won't</em> accomplish:



* Invading will not bring new players to the game. It will, however, cause existing players to spawn puppets - which may eventually lead to fewer players in the game as the puppets and their players get banned.



* Invading won't make the game more fun for anyone except the raiders. In fact, the idea of our region being invaded makes coming here <em class='bbc'>less fun</em> - If there were an invasion of TSP, I'd expect some players to leave for a few months and come back when the dust settled - if at all.



* Invading will not lead to growth for TSP - as a matter of fact, it challenges the growth that's already happened, by <em class='bbc'>undoing</em> what is, in some cases <em class='bbc'>years</em> of hard work and dedication by players who've come to expect a certain amount of stability in this region. The threat of booting those selfsame players from the region they've worked so hard to improve won't help us grow, either.



In short - there's only EVER one reason to raid a stable region, and that's because you want to. To put another notch in your rifle, so to speak, another feather in your cap.



It's ridiculous.

[Fudgie]

I know you're still trying to trust me, but leave the worrying to me. You just keep getting endos - I'll keep my eyes open and my ears up. I don't want the people here to be booted. If someone is to be elected and is good whereby they don't boot people, that's one thing. But I'm a former raider, and many of the current ones owe me something. So, in short, I will find out prior to an attack.

I have a Ministry of Security who does an excellent job of that, thank you. My suggestion would be that you confer with them should you know anything, and then proper protocol will be followed.

And I will worry about this region. You have no idea what we have been through as a community of people. I will defend it to the end, so I won't be just concentrating on collecting endorsements. You have a lot to learn about this region. My suggestion to you is to start reading some of the laws and protocols. You'll find them interesting.

[tsunamy]

But this is the issue at hand.  Never in my 4 years of NS have I seen a raider group take over a region and keep the old guard.  They have always booted them as they pose a threat to the new regime and the ideals they are trying to impose on the region.  This is the current threat to the South Pacific.  They want to move in, and they want to take us over to "increase activity".  They've handed us more or less an ultimatum, and it's disgusting.  I will not stand for, and I hope to God that noone else will stand for it.  They have NO RIGHT to tell us how to conduct our region, and tell us that they will take it from us if we don't comply.

For the record, I'm all up for them working with us to increase forum activity if they have legit ideas. (See proposal of legit idea <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=7941'>here.</a>)

However, when they're simply looking for an argument that will support them invading a feeder...it's problematic.

[htz31361849782]

Well I have seen what happens around here when we are challenged from within or from external pressure. I may not hold any Government position but I am a member of this region I don't like the idea of someone thinking they can come in here and take away what we as a comunity have built. I am willing to do whatever I can to help stand against anyone coming in here to try and take over this region no matter who they may be. :oscar:

[Todd McCloud]

[quote name="Fudgie"] [quote name='"Todd McCloud"] I know you're still trying to trust me' date=' but leave the worrying to me. You just keep getting endos - I'll keep my eyes open and my ears up. I don't want the people here to be booted. If someone is to be elected and is good whereby they don't boot people, that's one thing. But I'm a former raider, and many of the current ones owe me something. So, in short, I will find out prior to an attack. [/quote']

I have a Ministry of Security who does an excellent job of that, thank you. My suggestion would be that you confer with them should you know anything, and then proper protocol will be followed.



And I will worry about this region. You have no idea what we have been through as a community of people. I will defend it to the end, so I won't be just concentrating on collecting endorsements. You have a lot to learn about this region. My suggestion to you is to start reading some of the laws and protocols. You'll find them interesting. [/quote]

Noted.



And yes, I do not know all you and your people have had to endure over the years of your office. But likewise, you do not know me. Half of these raider organizations one sees today I either created or trained. In short, I know them in and out, back and forth, up and down. No one, not any intel operative, spy, or older veteran knows them the way I do. For all intensive purposes, and not to diminish anyone at all, I can see things because they talk directly to me. If you can trust me, there will be no planned attack on this region that will not go under my nose without me noticing (unless, of course, some new region were to suddenly form consisting of only new players and were stealthy enough where they just come in and... yeah). But that's a big "if", and I understand that "if" may be a long way away. So I can be patient and keep doing what I am doing to get to know this region and try to somehow fit in. To be frank, I don't know if an older player with my background can ever "fit in" here. To be even more frank, I don't know if any new players can ever "fit in" here. Sure, one can post and do a forum game, but there is a big gap in this society, and although I can understand the reasoning behind it, that could very well be the reason why activity has died down specifically here (granted activity has been slowing down across the board, but you get my point).



I'm not airing grievances, merely pointing out observations. If I am misinterpreting anything, or am speaking out of line, or you don't think you'll ever get over my past, please, let me know. I will listen, just as you have just listened to me.

[Brutland and Norden]

And yes, I am still confused, lol, apart from my gut feeling that there seems to be something weird goin' on... but I'll share my two cents.

First off, 'tis true that we are a fairly inactive region. Yes. We even have <a class='bbc_url' href='http://z1.invisionfree.com/forums/theSPacific/index.php?showtopic=7855'>a thread like this</a>. I would sure want to make this region as active as others are.

However, I would disagree with the idea that having us be invaded and/or raid regions is a great way to induce activity. Other active regions don't have to resort to that, y'know. The moment we willingly allow that is the day I will have to leave this region.

But, we can do some other stuff to revitalize the region. ^_^ I would be posting ideas as I gather them thoughts, but those will have to come later, 'cause Neurology can be quite bad.

[Caer Rialis]

Activity is down, Brutland and Norden. There is no denying that. Activity is down in NS as well. I remember just two years ago we had 6000+ nations in the region, numbers which were equald by all the feeders. Now the feeders average 3300-3400.



What was proposed of those other boards was indeed an invasion to spark interest, an invasion of the feeders. Although other ideas came to mind, the consensus of a solid corps, certainly a tthe time Fudgie informed the region, to invade a feeder, with the odds favoring invading us. This would, in their eyes spark interest and rejuvenate NS for the next 3-4 years when the same cycle would hit again.



But, as you pointed out, and a solid member of The North Pacific on the other boards, an invasion only sparks temporarry interest. After that, activity levels drop below the original levels that many complain about. Invasion which, in theory, works, but in practice fails utterly.



Similarly, what the proponents of invasion fail to understand is that NS is truly not developing many <em class='bbc'>new</em> players. it is, in the grand scheme of things, a rather simplistic game and far more flashy games are out there. Unless NS is able to reach out to gather in new people, and tweak the system a bit, we'll find that all the new nations are simply puppets of the old. How will that increase interest and activity?



What we need to do is just be more active and inform people from the outside that they wil not <em class='bbc'>force</em> change upon us.