TEP/TRR/Kantrias

[Hileville]

I figured I would throw a thread up here about the treaty discussions. As I said on Skype TEP is discussing the treaty within their Cabinet now. TRR got back to me yesterday and stated they have no interest in pursuing closer relations at this time. They cited our foreign policy and military alignment as reasons that "hinder" relations.


We really need to get the Kantrias vote up. They were disappointed that this fell through on our side when it did and were very optimistic that it was going to move forward.


I will keep you guys updated about TEP as I know more.

[Southern Bellz]

TRR have been terrible at keeping relations post sedge coup. I was very vocal about the delegate hand off between kandy and nai and I think some of them harbor a personal dislike of me.


They pretty much supported sedge, and him and cg obviously don't like me


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[Hileville]

I don't know but I think it is petty. Our military is independent and theirs isn't even a part of the government at all so I'm not getting that argument. The foreign policy bit is certainly because of us being neutral on Osiris.

[Sandaoguo]

I'd like to make the Cabinet aware that Geomania has made himself available for future negotiations with TRR. He has a lot of connections with the region and a rapport with Sedge, so I think he'd be very useful.

[Awesomiasa]

Sorry to bump this thread, but seeing as this thread is about TRR, I'd need to bring a Resident Spotlight I did (that I haven't published) to the Cabinet's attention, specifically that of Geomania.

 

In Geo's Spotlight, he mentioned that he was once sent as a spy to TRR by TSP in the earlier days, although he did later become an RRA Commander in his own right. I'd like to seek the Cabinet's advice on whether I should publish the interview in its entirety or redact that part (since I don't think it's public knowledge, even in TSP)

 

EDIT: Relevant interview here

[Sandaoguo]

I can't see the review you linked to, but I would strongly suggest redacting that as we move forward with treaty negotiations with TRR. Negotiations are hard enough with our relationship with TNI.

[Kris Kringle]

Glen, this is the part Awe's referring to:

 

Another interesting moment in my personal NS development was waaaay back in the day, when the RRA was a raider organization. So when TSP's first government was installed, we thought they were the big boogeymen of NS. So I was sent in as a spy.

 

After I infiltrated the RRA I found that their organization had no designs on TSP, and in fact, had become a full-fledged defender region battling the likes of the ACC and DEN and whoever was raiding in.

 

Pretty soon, the RRA Commander, Siggi, discovered my true identity so he booted me out. As an interesting sidenote, I had taken a sabbatical from TSP sometime in 2004 or 2005, and the RRA let me back in. I rose in the ranks to become an RRA Commander.

[Belschaft]

To put that in its correct historical context, the ACC pre-dates the NPO - it was the big hegemonic threat to the GCR's before Franco came along and the wars against him occurred.


The TRR that he was sent to spy on is not the same TRR that exists today - at that point in time CG was in the Pacific still. The modern TRR evolved out of the exile Pacific Army that she led.


Long story short, we're talking about events that occured in 2003. There is no reason to redact the information.


Edit: and then unless TRR have changed their mind, there is zero point in bothering about potential treaties with them

[Sandaoguo]

Belschaft, that information is interesting, but with all due respect, I feel uncomfortable with non-Cabinet member admins posting in these forums, let alone regularly reading them.  :unsure:

 

I made the suggestion to Awe to redact the information because, in my opinion, any small thing that could possibly throw a wrench into already difficult negotiations should be avoided. To me, it doesn't matter if it happened in 2003. People in this game make big deals over nothing for stupid reasons all the time.

[Belschaft]

Belschaft, that information is interesting, but with all due respect, I feel uncomfortable with non-Cabinet member admins posting in these forums, let alone regularly reading them.  :unsure:

 

With 'all due respect' it has been policy on these forums that admins are not only free but <i>invited</i> to post in this area for longer than either of us have been playing this game. Escade can consider altering that policy if she likes, but until she does so you'll just have to go on feeling uncomfortable, and admins will continue to post here when we feel like we have useful advice/information.

 

 

 

I made the suggestion to Awe to redact the information because, in my opinion, any small thing that could possibly throw a wrench into already difficult negotiations should be avoided. To me, it doesn't matter if it happened in 2003. People in this game make big deals over nothing for stupid reasons all the time.

 

Considering that as recently as last month TRR made it clear to TSP that they had no interest in any form of improved relations, at all, on any basis, unless we were willing to alter our foreign policy, military alignment and allies then I would assume that there are no serious negotiations, nor will there be, unless you've managed to achieve a massive breakthrough on those points? If so, my congratulations. If not, I would recommend you don't mislead the Cabinet in regards to such matters by pretending otherwise.

[Sandaoguo]

You are not providing information. You're attempting to influence major foreign policy decisions. I get that you were a Cabinet member for a long time and the transition must be difficult, but having access to these forums doesn't grant you permission to become a de facto Cabinet member. I don't care how long this "tradition" has gone on -- I've never seen an admin post here to influence decisions, and I think it's inappropriate. You weren't elected and nobody asked for your advice.

This doesn't have to be an unpleasant fight. I feel like I'm being very reasonable right now. It's not a lot to ask that unelected admins not act as if they're entitled to be privy to Cabinet discussions and be involved in Cabinet decisions.

My decision was made. Awe agreed to it. That's the end of the story.

We are going to go forward with TRR negotiations. That's the agenda determined by myself, Kris, and Escade.

As an admin, your job is to manage the forums, not the government. It creates problems when unaccountable admins start influencing Cabinet policy, when nobody asked for their input or advice. If the TRR negotiations go far enough to reach the Assembly, that's when you guys can voice your concerns with the full impact of your experience and political influence. To do it here is incredibly inappropriate. If admins keep feeling as if they are de facto Cabinet members, monitoring these forums and participating without direct invitation, that will just drive these discussions to venues admins don't have access to, as some of us feel uncomfortable having others watching over our shoulders with every decision we make.

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[Belschaft]

Glen, sooner or later you're going to have to accept the fact this region has certain conventions and procedures that predate your presence here and that they do not get automatically changed to suit your personal preference. Whether or not admins are welcome to post in the Cabinet area is at the discretion of the Delegate, and until Escade indicates that she does not desire the advice of the admin team when it is offered then it will remain so. As for the idea that there is any section of these forums that admins are forbidden from, there will be an entirely new set of forums and a new admin team before that happens.

 

In regards to the specific question of TRR, no more than one month ago they flat out refused any possibility of closer relations, as reported by the then Minister of Foreign Affairs in this very thread. I would normally assume that as current MoFA you would be aware of that fact, but it appears to me that you were either ignorant of it or ignoring it. As such, I bring that up again so as to provide the information to the Cabinet in case it had overlooked it. Further to that, I advise that decisions are not made on the basis of trying to improve relations with a region which rejected the idea a month ago, and made it clear that they would not consider the matter unless TSP altered it's military alignment, foreign policy, and allies.

 

This is a role we serve in this region, and have served in for the best part of a decade. The Admin team, former Cabinet members all, posses significant knowledge and experience, often having previously dealt with issues that come up repeatedly. Historically this is something that Cabinets have welcomed; you are the first Cabinet member ever to object to it. As I said above it is up to Escade, and to her alone, to determine whether or not she desires such information and advice.

[Kris Kringle]

I think there is a difference that we have to make. If Belschaft (or any other admin) was constantly participating in Cabinet discussions like he was a Cabinet member, then I would find it inappropriate, specially if he hasn't been asked to do so in the first place.
That said, I don't see a problem with admins providing context or further historical information they consider to be relevant to our discussions. I think that is positive for our discussions, and should not be discouraged. That I think is the difference we have to make about this situations.