The Blackout of '03!!!!!!!
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The Blackout of '03!!!!!!!
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08-15-2003, 02:29 PM
Yes, folks. The Blackout of 2003 broke records, over 50 million people at one time without electricity, the largest amount of people without power at one time in the US, and that number doesn't even include Canada. The blackout stretched as far west as Cleveland and Detroit, as far south as New Jersey, as far north as the Canadian province of Ontario, and as far west as Hartford, Connecticut.
08-15-2003, 04:15 PM
[sarcasm]Maybe you should thank your conservatists/republicans.After all, they managed to privatize what should have remained a public service : energy. And you see what it gives. When was last time ? Was it... California ?[/sarcasm]Vive la France et EDF ! Here, we have had unusually hot temperatures for a few weeks, but our public services has managed to keep things up-and-running. Not a single power failure.
08-15-2003, 04:22 PM
What does privatizing energy have to do with it? One of the power stations had a fire, and there was a cascading effect in the Northeast. And your public services in France have failed to save the lives of 3,000 people.
08-15-2003, 04:27 PM
Maybe if it had been public services, there would have been no fire, because more money would have been thrown into maintenance and upgrade ?...Anyway I was being sarcastic, incase you did not note. Not serious if you prefer.As for french public services losing 3,000 lives, well, how many people die in America because they can't pay proper healthcare each year ? No stats on this, unfortunatly. And should a similar weather happen to entire America, frankly, I doubt that they would proportionally do better. Anyhow...
08-15-2003, 04:53 PM
I'm sorry, i didn't notice the sarcasm tags.....Anyway, how can you compare the amount of people who die in the US that don't have healthcare to 3,000 people dieing in France due to heat in two weeks? For God's sakes, not even 3,000 people around the world were just infected with SARS when the disease was at its peak....
08-15-2003, 07:02 PM
The SARS was NOTHING. It has been overexagerated and over-whatever by the medias. If there had not been that panic thing in Vietnam, noone would ever have heard about it.Besides, before saying this is due to public service, look at the causes : the death are not dued to a lack of healthcare service but to hydratation problems directly to the people. No people in hospitals had problems. Those who died were alone/isolated elderly people who did not realize they had to drink because of the abnormal heat. Probably some death could have been avoided if the services had been more efficient, for sure, but I would say at least 2/3rd of the people who died would have died anyway.[sarcasm] Also, maybe we could start blaming Mr. Bush now rather than waiting a few more years to see this kind of abnormal heat will repeat partly because he did not want to take any environmental measures that have been recognized by the rest of the World as necessary to the safety of the current environment [/sarcasm]Anyway, won't talk of this anymore, I could say bad serious/non-sarcastic things...
08-15-2003, 07:59 PM
i must agree with CI that the enviroment is in sad shape. although - some scientists believe that we are still in an ice age and the earth is just narturally heating up to its normal temp.interesting thought.note: geo, i wish when people said that they were more detailed. i quiet like the fact that all but a few towns in PA, while PA is directly between NYC and Cleveland - maintained power. It makes me feel special and for once happy i live in PA
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"I learned that dreams don't work without action. I learned that no one could stop me but me. I learned that love is stronger than hate. And most important, I learned that God does exist. He and/or she is right inside you underneath the pain, the sorrow and the shame." -tsu
08-15-2003, 09:53 PM
Geo: An addition to my first post: I just saw your deary President W. on TV, and he said that indeed, the electrical network was old and not very well maintained... Who could you blame ?...
08-15-2003, 10:40 PM
Geo, this isn't an attack, but an honest question.
Why do you always attack other countries and compare how better the republican party is to any other party/policy/government This doesn't <em class='bbc'>always</em> have to involve RL politics and when you do in volve them, you don't <em class='bbc'>always</em> have to disrespect others in the manner that you do. So why do you do it? Are you pushing your political beliefs? Are you proving that you are right? I've come to find that this is a very liberal minded forum (as opposed to a completely liberal minded one) and I don't think comments like that impress' anyone or changes their views. So why do it other then tarnish your own reputation, because seriously, that's all it's done to me.
08-16-2003, 05:10 AM
Quote:Geo, this isn't an attack, but an honest question.Well Gatren, I guess I always attack other nations' gov'ts and say that the ideals of the GOP are better than any other ideals upheld by anyone else because I feel that most conservative/GOP ideals are better than any other ideals, esp. the Liberal Party. What you said about me disrespecting people: it's not really disrespecting when it's criticizing. I'm not pushing any political beliefs: I'm just partaking in the endless debate that politics are. I have to agree with you when you say that this is an uber left-winged place, but I'm not gonna stay silent and not display my political beliefs just because I'm in the minority and am tarnishing my rep. In addition: Quote:Geo: An addition to my first post:Yeah.....and you're point? The electrical network in New York didn't fail, it was some power station in Canada. Last time I checked Canada wasn't part of the US.
08-16-2003, 05:34 AM
Since mr bush was brought up i must state something. the daily show (yes on comedy central but it has no bearing since it brings a valid point) the president announced that he is a "follower" of American poltics...as John Steward stated, that's strang since as the President you would think he'd be LEADING American poltics...
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"I learned that dreams don't work without action. I learned that no one could stop me but me. I learned that love is stronger than hate. And most important, I learned that God does exist. He and/or she is right inside you underneath the pain, the sorrow and the shame." -tsu
08-16-2003, 06:59 AM
[This next post will put my opinion on both Blackout '03 and the Global Warming, the latter which was touched on very briefly]
Actually, it was the American grid that failed, I believe. And I believe this brings to light what Dubya said. But, here's the problem: Who's going to foot the bill? We've got the NIMBYs (Not In My BackYard) who like the idea but don't want it built. Then there are the Greenies who want more power, but believe that it should be Hydro, Wind, and Solar. While these are good methods, and I applaud them for believing in this, these methods are really not enough to sustain us just yet. I believe that the answer to the question of "Who picks up the tab?" is a combination of the private sector and the government. Also, there should be incentives to private sector companies to get the job done, and do it <em class='bbc'>right</em> the first time, rather than the fifth time. On Global warming and the power supply, I believe that the answer lies with nuclear. Before you go screaming "REMEMBER CHERNOBYL!!!!" let me explain. They have developed a new type of reactor called a pebble bed reactor (not too sure; it's been awhile since I've read the Pop Sci article) where there are tennis-ball-sized spheres. Each of these balls is an independent reactor (I believe) that is encased in a layer of lead. I read that because of this design, a meltdown is all but impossible. Which, if we are to switch over to electric cars like California is doing, or rather, trying to do, we will need the NIMBYs to be silent. The problem with electric cars with the current state of the power grid, never mind it's antiquity, is that power plants are oil and coal plants. One question: where is the power going to come from for the electric cars? The current oil/coal power plants, shifting pollutants from the tailpipes of internal combustion cars to the plants. This doesn't factor in hydrogen fuel cells, which show promise, or true fusion power, which always seems to be 20 years away. Both of these, I believe, have the potential to solve our problems. But until they are developed we have to learn to get by with what we've got. <em class='bbc'>Note: I did not intend to offend anyone with this post. I apologize if I did</em>
08-16-2003, 09:19 AM
Geo, there is a difference between displaying your political view and distroying other people's views. You should not treat any challange as a declearation of war. Also surely you do not agree with every single ideal that the republican party proffesses, do you? that would seem to me like you are blindly following their word. Anyhow dont take it as an insult, an opposing view in any discussion prevents radicalisation and expands viewpoints (studies have proven this).Also Aurellis, you will find that greens do not support hydro power, as despite their eco friendly image they distroy all the wildlife surrounding them. All the fish die, the water plants etc. On another point, I read recently that the IMF (international monetary fund, which helps poor nations develop) published a report that stated clearly that privitisation did not lead to lower prices or better service in any case they investigated, rather it led to increased cost and further deteriation in service. Why is it that the IMF, despite publishing a report like this, still forces countries that are seeking loans to privatise their services sectors. If they know it is bad why force already poor nations to simply ruin their economy?
08-16-2003, 02:43 PM
Privatization indeed leads to deterioration of services - just look at English railway and you have evidence. This is simple to understand : corporations don't look for good service, they look not only for profit, but for profit growth. And there are not many ways to help profit grow - reduce costs faster than everyone else to remain competitive. Which means, in the end, a deteriorate service.As to lowering prices, I don't know. I guess this depends on the dynamics of the sector.Also, Aurellis is right. All experts say that this is not primarily due to a fire in a powerstation but more importantly to an overconsumption that could not be supported by the network which failed cascadingly... because of it is old and needs urgently to be replaced... but since corporations are not very eager to pay, and since, as Aurellis said, people don't want either, well, it could take some time.As for Geo's behavior, I won't comment on. After all, it is everyone's right to defend his ideas, as long as one doesn't offend others or speaks without having any new argument to propose against others' ideas. And also acknowledge when it is obvious others are right and be open-minded enough to understand and accept others' opinions and arguments. This is the only way political debates can be interesting. [all this, imho]
08-17-2003, 12:04 PM
Quote:And also acknowledge when it is obvious others are right and be open-minded enough to understand and accept others' opinions and arguments. This is the only way political debates can be interesting.Acknowledging that someone else is right in politics while you are wrong (which is basically submitting to your opponent) would make politics boring. For example, if Bush admitted that his economic plan, for the most part, was laughabble, then it would stop being interesting.
08-17-2003, 12:23 PM
Contrary, this is what makes political debates interesting since when you acknoledge you are wrong, because obviously you are, you always try to find something else to justify yourself or an argument to shop you are not entirely wrong or that other solutions would have been as wrong, hence creating another discussion. - like now
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