The Treaty of Amity (TSP-UDL)

[StGeorgie]

 

Does the delegate wish to speak to the Assembly about this at some point?

[Mizay]

We now have a treaty with the UDL??

[StGeorgie]

I don't know. I can't see the thread, only that it exists.

[Kris Kringle]

Your point being?

[StGeorgie]

I could make many points dear.

[karatengisa]

Go on.

[Hileville]

We do not have a treaty with the UDL. No treaty can be put in force without assembly approval. I can tell you no matter what the treaty says I will not be voting in favor of it.

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[Belschaft]

I have no idea what that is. Gimme a min to see if my Guardian access allows me to view the thread in question.

 

Edit: That is posted in the office of the Chief of GCR Affairs, an area I cannot see. As such I know no more than anyone else, and will wait till I see what this supposed treaty is before commenting.

[StGeorgie]

How... odd. But not surprising of the UDL.

[Rebel-topia]

I wouldnt be voting for this, either. Im very sure it wouldnt make it through the assembly, even with the "UDL stooge(s)"...

[StGeorgie]

No one was called a UDL stooge, Rebel-topia.

[Awesomiasa]

Do we actually have relations with the UDL in the first place? :o

[Kris Kringle]

We don't have relations with the UDL.

[Awesomiasa]

Then how do we birth a Treaty out of nothing?

[Kris Kringle]

I can't stop the UDL from approaching us on a proposed agreement if they so wish. Still I can say that we are not negotiating any agreement with the UDL yet. Personally I see it very unlikely that it would pass either a Cabinet or Assembly vote.


 

[Sandaoguo]

Edit: That is posted in the office of the Chief of GCR Affairs, an area I cannot see. As such I know no more than anyone else, and will wait till I see what this supposed treaty is before commenting.

Which is, of course, the proper way to do things. People take note.

[StGeorgie]

To be honest the most interesting thing to comment upon this treaty will be how long until the UDL breaks it...

[Sandaoguo]

The Private Halls of the Assembly isn't a forum for idle gossip. If and when the Cabinet presents a treaty to the Assembly for approval, we can all talk about how much we hate the UDL's guts.

[StGeorgie]

Heh. Who hates the UDL's guts? I like the UDL.

 

At least, I liked the UDL I helped to create. The one that was led the defender world for months. This... poor excuse for that UDL I couldn't care about.

[Southern Bellz]

I have nothing against the UDL and would like to improve ties with them, but based on past incidents it wouldn't be smart to jump right into a treaty.

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[Sandaoguo]

I have nothing against the UDL and would like to improve ties with them, but based on past incidents it wouldn't be smart to jump right into a treaty.


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I think there's a general disinterest is forging a military alliance with the UDL, though perhaps different people have different reasons. I don't think TSP-UDL relations should be symmetrical, though I'm not sure how the UDL would think of that. (In my own experience, there are elements in the UDL [not sure if they're still there] that tend to view asymmetry as disrespect.) In other words, the UDL should be obligated to protect us, but we should not have any similar obligation. They aren't a region. Their raison d'etre is to defend native communities, and the way for them to secure themselves is through legitimacy, which they gain through GCR agreements anyways.

 

Anyways, if not a treaty, then an agreement. If not an agreement, then a mutual understanding. All treaties proposed by the UDL have some kind of offer of military training. I think we should take that up if offered. For the UDL, I think that's better than nothing for them, as they may gain more permanent members if individual NSA members enjoy the joint training missions. This can be done without a treaty, and without the Assembly having to act all, but it requires the willingness of the Cabinet to engage in those kinds of confidence-building measures (and revise the prohibition on interacting with the UDL) and an actual NSA.

[Rebel-topia]

Im all for an "agreement". I just dont think jumping into a treaty with them after what they've put us through is such a great idea.

[Sandaoguo]

Im all for an "agreement". I just dont think jumping into a treaty with them after what they've put us through is such a great idea.

 

This is very different from the straight up opposition to any normalization that has been going on ever since the TNP incident. If members of TSP's security establishment don't have a lot of confidence in the UDL, then that's something that can be fixed through confidence-building measures, such as joint training missions. I think that's a good place to start. However, it's not going to happen if people around here keep holding on to the animosity they have with the UDL. You can't on one hand talk shit about them and about how you'll never support a renewed relationship, and then on the other say you're for some kind of agreement. Do you think people in the UDL would be very eager to work with that kind of environment? So there needs to be a cooling of the rhetoric and a genuine willingness to put the past in the past.

 

Procedurally,  the Cabinet prohibited any organ of TSP working with the UDL in any capacity. The Cabinet would have to rescind that prohibition for any agreement to be considered. Technically, we can't even send out official representatives to work out an agreement with that prohibition in place, since it affects both foreign relations and military operations. In even relaying this information, the MoFA technically violated the executive policy.

[StGeorgie]

UDL's price for joint training missions has always been making the other military junior to the UDL, as well as making that military give up any kind of raiding.

 

A TSP military would be doomed to fall into inactivity and decay if we agreed to that.

[Kris Kringle]

Leaving the UDL for a moment, we have to recognise that our military is already incredibly inactive and almost entirely non existent. We should try and discuss ways to make it more active.