Post Osiris Treaty Repeal Discussion

[Belschaft]

A note has been sent to Osiris Delegate informing them of this. Once I receive confirmation of receipt I will consider the TSP-Osiris alliance no longer in force.

 

And thus falls the Triple Alliance

[Southern Bellz]

They should of thought of that before they dissolved their own government in favor of a new one.

[Libetarian Republics]

It was in their interests when they dissolved their government; just like it's in ours to repeal our treaty with them.

[Kris Kringle]

In accordance with the repeal the Treaty has been moved to the Archive of Diplomatic Documents of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[Belschaft]

I have received confirmation of receipt.

[StGeorgie]

It is unfortunate that this has occurred, and the assertion in the repeal text that the current government is illegitimate does not bode well for future TSP-Osiris relations.

[Mizay]

I don't think that is the suggestion

[Southern Bellz]

It is unfortunate that this has occurred, and the assertion in the repeal text that the current government is illegitimate does not bode well for future TSP-Osiris relations.

This isn't true at all.



The government we negotiated this treaty with doesn't exist, why would we keep this?



If Osi wants a new treaty with TSP, reach out to Bels.



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[Kris Kringle]

The Government of The South Pacific has said on various occasions that it will keep evaluating the situation in Osiris and that whenever there is an adequate and representative government there then we will negotiate a new agreement with them.
This repeal does not suppose ill will towards the region of Osiris or its people, so it makes no sense to believe that this is a setback, or that it cannot be rebuilt into a future Osiris-TSP alliance as before.

[StGeorgie]

I don't think that is the suggestion

The repeal text literally declares the current government to be illegitimate.

[StGeorgie]

The government we negotiated this treaty with doesn't exist, why would we keep this?

 

Because the treaty doesn't mention governments?

 

The blaming of Osiris for the dissolution of this treaty is amusing, especially since Osiris isn't the one who just voted to dissolve it.

[Sandaoguo]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mizay" data-cid="106137" data-time="1380904027">
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I don't think that is the suggestion

The repeal text literally declares the current government to be illegitimate.

 

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</blockquote>
 

The statement by the Cabinet stressed the importance of Asta's regime being temporary caretakers. The Assembly is concerned that we were all misled about the nature of Asta's takeover. When there is a drastic change in a region's governing system, that necessitates a review of our relations with them.

 

In my own opinion, the review of the TSP-Osiris relationship was long overdue, given the incredible instability of Osiris compared to all other GCRs. The reason why I supported this measure in the end is because I don't think the new Osiris regime is going to be stable in the long run. A precondition for my support in signing a new treaty is that Osiris must have constitutional governance and there must be a unified foreign policy.

[Rebel-topia]

I have received confirmation of receipt.

 

Can we have some sort of reply? How did Asta take it?

[Belschaft]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Belschaft" data-cid="106133" data-time="1380895789">
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I have received confirmation of receipt.

 

Can we have some sort of reply? How did Asta take it?

 

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</blockquote>
Um... she confirmed receipt? She was fairly understanding and didn't seem upset.

 

Bel: 'I have the sad duty to inform you that TSP has revoked the TSP-Osiris treaty. As such, upon receipt of this   informal note you must consider our alliance ended.'

 

Asta: 'I DECLINE. <3'

 

Bel: 'You don't actually get to decline <_< '

 

Asta: 'I do so! I'm the empress, I can do what I want.

...Is TSP preparing to declare war on us? '

 

Bel: 'Not that I am aware of.'

 

 

That was our TG exchange. As you can see Osiris' Delegate is furious and taking this as a personal insult and things and stuff.

 

Honestly, George is blowing this all out of proportion.

[Rebel-topia]

Thanks, Bel.

 

I do hope we can reallign our selves with Osi when (and if) they ever get their act together...

[StGeorgie]

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. Asta won't be delegate forever and the mood in Osiris at this legislature naming the current regime as 'illegitimate', as well as being propaganda authored by a defender stooge, is not conductive to amiable future relations.

 

That is the reality of things, and it's completely in proportion with the actions this Assembly has taken.

[Rebel-topia]

Georgie. Have we declared war on Osiris? Have we delcared Osiris hostile?

 

I think youre here to start shit and I think youre making a mountain out of a mole hill. If anyone is spewing propaganda, its you.

[Sandaoguo]

I'm not blowing anything out of proportion. Asta won't be delegate forever and the mood in Osiris at this legislature naming the current regime as 'illegitimate', as well as being propaganda authored by a defender stooge, is not conductive to amiable future relations.

 

That is the reality of things, and it's completely in proportion with the actions this Assembly has taken.

 

You're obviously referring to me when you say "defender stooge." You should be wary of laying out accusations when you lack full information. I did not propose ending TSP-Osiris relations. I didn't ask Hileville to bring the treaty up, and I didn't coordinate with anybody in this thread to get votes for its dissolution. In fact, before this issue was even brought to the Assembly, I was suggesting caution in the Cabinet. The statement released by the Cabinet closely follows my own thoughts on the matter at the time.

 

Your attempts to paint this as a defender conspiracy to destroy TSP-Osiris relations will fail here. The only person to vote against repealing the treaty is Brutland and Norden. The person who kept trying to speed up its repeal was Southern Bellz, hardly a "defender stooge." I'm not going to stand for conspiracies and witch-hunts in TSP.

 

The Cabinet has spoken. The Assembly has spoken. TSP is essentially unified in its stance on Osiris. We are not enemies, we simply need to reassess the closeness of our relations with the current Osiris regime. This Assembly vote should not have come as any surprise, if you had read the Cabinet statement and if you have been paying attention to reactions outside of Osiris' highly insular forum. In due time, we're all in agreement that a new treaty should be forged. When that happens is largely up to Osiris.

[StGeorgie]

Georgie. Have we declared war on Osiris? Have we delcared Osiris hostile?

 

I think youre here to start shit and I think youre making a mountain out of a mole hill. If anyone is spewing propaganda, its you.

You've declared Osiris illegitimate.

 

That is hostile. Not only that, but it could be used by those seeking justification to undermine the progress we've made with unendorsement campaigns against Asta. The treaty you've just repealed, authored by a defender, brought to vote by another with known defender sympathies (out of a number of drafts that could've been chosen) was made in friendship to TSP.

 

The repeal, which explicitly names the current regime as illegitimate, is anything but an act friendly to Osiris. It is an act that is decidedly unfriendly. You had a chance to choose and support a draft that didn't potentially undermine our security and stability, and you didn't choose it. This Assembly has tanked Osiris-TSP relations.

[Sandaoguo]

The treaty you've just repealed, authored by a defender, brought to vote by another with known defender sympathies (out of a number of drafts that could've been chosen) was made in friendship to TSP.

This is an incorrect claim resulting from a misunderstanding of the role of the Chair. It's my job to write proposed bills into legislative format. If you go back to the debate over this treaty repeal, you will find that I wrote four different versions of a repeal, and others chose which one to use. As I said before, you should be wary of making accusations without full information. Not only was I suggesting a more cautious way forward in the Cabinet, which other members can validate if they choose, but I also wasn't even thinking of the treaty after we released our statement. I proposed repealing the TNI treaty back during TDE's coup of Osiris from the beginning, so if I was eager to repeal the Osiris treaty, I would have proposed doing so instead of endorsing the Cabinet statement. Frankly, I was very surprised so many people here wanted to discuss the treaty at all.

This Assembly has tanked Osiris-TSP relations.

We will see, but it's doubtful. As far as I'm aware, Osiris hasn't officially taken any action. It's just you on these forums trying to start a witch hunt against me and others you see as defender propagandists. I speak out against our relations with TNI, but that doesn't mean TSP-TNI relations are actually "tanked."





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[StGeorgie]

1. I said there was a number of drafts available.


2. I pointed out that former defender/defender sympathizer chose the draft that went to vote.


3. I know what you're job is. Quite frankly though, you could've left out anything to do with legitimacy altogether.

[Sandaoguo]

Any language would have evoked the same response. The treaty was repealed because of the new regime, no matter how you slice it. If we wanted to be hostile, we would have endorsed military action against Asta, instead of explicitly ruling it out in the Cabinet statement.

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[Brutland and Norden]

The only person to vote against repealing the treaty is Brutland and Norden.

 

Actually I am not entirely alone, George also voted against.

[Southern Bellz]

St George, just know you will have my support on a new treaty with Osi on the assembly floor.

The goal of this was not to distance ourselves from you, but to recognize a massive change in Osi and feeling our treaty needed to be re done with the new government.

We felt the beat way was with a clean repeal and a new treaty.

I do think you should have excused yourself from the assembly vote, because you seem to be advocating an outside TSP perspective.

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[Sandaoguo]

For what it's worth, I would also support a new treaty, so long as the Osiris government has some kind of stable, permanent structure to ensure that the treaty would actually be enforced.

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