Where we are with new forums

[Sandaoguo]

I'm posting this here, because it's where all Cabinet and admins can see it.

 

I've been researching various forum software, both free and paid. We are running the latest version of IP.Board, which actually causes a huge problem. Pretty much all of the forum software out there doesn't support converting from IP.Board 3.4.6. There are some beta converters out there, but they don't convert everything, and the developers say they're too buggy to be used on a live forum.

 

So it's looking increasingly like we will be starting anew. We will still have a backup of the database, but no way to transfer it to a new forum until the converters are completely written (and nobody knows how long that will take). Hileville wants to shut down this server altogether, which means he likely won't keep it up as an archive, since he would have to pay for that.

[Rebel-topia]

We still have access to the old zeta/IF boards, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure how transferring from here to there would work, though.

[tsunamy]

Can I *strongly* urge the cheapest options possible? While the forums are great and we're forever indebted to Hile for the money he spent on them -- I don't think the expense can or should be expected to run the forums.

 

Also -- what exactly do we need? Space/server/etc? Are we considering QD's offer of server space?

 

(I'm editing this so I don't have 45 millions posts -- sorry guys.)

 

RT: We do still have access to the old boards, if that would work as a stop gap or way to convert back and then to something else?

 

Also -- I have a personal/professional website that I host via HostMonster. It seems to have  unlimited space/bandwidth, domain hosting, etc. and gives the option to install Simple Machine forum software. I use so little of it that I'd be happy to register a new domain and give access to the space is that's an option? (I really don't know the feasibility of it?)

[Hileville]

I would appreciate a decision on what is happening by the end of the weekend.

[Sandaoguo]

We still have access to the old zeta/IF boards, if I'm not mistaken. I'm not sure how transferring from here to there would work, though.

 

There's no way to import any type of database into Zetaboards.

 

@tsu: There's no shortage of people offering to hose the forums. I would like to keep it in the TSP family, so to speak, so I think QD's offer is looking good, if we can get more info about it.

 

Regarding the forum software, I think our best free options are phpBB and MyBB. Here's a comparison of the features. I'm leaning strongly towards MyBB.

[Hileville]

I would appreciate a decision on what is happening by the end of the weekend.

Actually you have until Monday to move forums. These boards will be shut down no later than 12pm Monday.

[Sandaoguo]

We also need to discuss what to do regarding a domain name. Should we purchase another one?

[tsunamy]

We also need to discuss what to do regarding a domain name. Should we purchase another one?

 

What are costs? And probably?

[Sandaoguo]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Sandaoguo" data-cid="121637" data-time="1395510556">
<div>
We also need to discuss what to do regarding a domain name. Should we purchase another one?

 

What are costs? And probably?

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

About $10/yr for a .com.

[tsunamy]

Cool.  Then yes -- we def. should get a new one, unless Hile is up for sharing the current one?

[Sandaoguo]

I talked to QD, and this is what he said about his offer. I have no way of verifying if the information is accurate.

Code:

Sandaoguo: I have a lot of questions about the forum you just created, so bear with me. :P

1. Is it a legal license, or is it a nulled copy of IPB?
2. What's your server's uptime?
3. What will you do about us needing file access, if we need it? An FTP account for the forums?

--------

QuietDad: It's a legal copy. I have a corporate license as I am a reseller due to real life activities. The host is www.x10hosting.com which is now set up as a free acoount, but as such it is unlimited storage and data traffic. The servers are based in San Fransisco and I've been using them for years. I don't have statistics but, like I said, I use them all the time and currently support 14 web sites on them and have never had a problem,
As for file access, I can give the right people whatever access you need. I can give FTP and/or CPANEL access to whoever it is decided by the panel. You may only want to use it as a temporary parking lot, you may make it the new home. I really don't care.b It's a free account and the only thing on it is a blank IPBoard and as such I have no vested interest in it.

---------------------------

 

Here's the two options we currently have:

 

1. Host of our copy of MyBB on a dedicated free hosting service, with _______ (and _______) as root administrator(s).
 
Upsides: 
- MyBB is free, which means should this situation ever occur again, a replacement forum can be easily rolled out. No money has to be spent at all.
- Using a dedicated free hosting service means we can safely share control panel information, as nobody has a vested interest in the account, nor are personal and financial information exposed.
 
Downsides:
- MyBB is not as feature-rich as IP.Board.
- We will not be able to perfectly import the database from these forums over to MyBB. The current importer script available is in beta, and is too buggy to use on a live forum.
 
2. Use QuietDad's copy of IP.Board on a dedicated free hosting service, with _______ (and _______) as root administrator(s).
 
Upsides:
- It's the same forum software we currently use, meaning we can import all of the forum data to the new forum.
- Using a dedicated free hosting service means we can safely share control panel information, as nobody has a vested interest in the account, nor are personal and financial information exposed.
 
Downsides:
- The community would not own the license, meaning we would not be able to move the forums should QuietDad leave the game or otherwise be unable to provide the forum license.
- Should we be in this situation again, it is unlikely that we would be able to easily roll out new forums, as most forum software does not support importing IP.Board 3.4.x databases.
 
 
 
I think the current admins and the Cabinet need to vote on this, and perhaps we should also send these options to the Assembly.

[Sandaoguo]

I'll be checking these forums regularly tonight, but it's also my best friend's birthday, so I won't be available on IRC.

 

I think we should take QD up on his offer. I'm willing to be root admin for now, since several people have suggested it, but I'd like to get at least one other person on board for that sooner or later.

 

I motion this to vote.

[tsunamy]

I think QD's offer is great and could work in a pinch, but we could be in a similar situation in months or years. Nothing against QD, but the more resources we're using the more dependent upon the admin/provider/etc.


If we're using a free service on a free site, it's easier to transfer and/leave since there are less resources involved.


Further, I don't see much of a downside to moving. Well lose some, but realistically how much?


Discussions have ultimately ended at the moment and we can pick everything up on a new forum. We might lose some stuff, but we've only been using this forum for what -- 18 months?


In short, I like the idea of using MyBB.

[tsunamy]

Sorry -- I'm checking on my phone and slow to respond so I was typing during GRs second message. I'm willing to follow everyone else, but I'm still for the above.


Also, I support GR for root. I'd be happy to help out but my tech skills are not up to what would be needed for all of this.

[Kris Kringle]

I honestly just want the option that will give us the best forum and give us a trustworthy person in charge.

If QD's option and GR as root will accomplish that, then I'm all for it.

[Escade]

I'm on phone, should be home in about an hour or so to discuss more.


I'd like an option where its a community ownership and easily transferrable.

[Drugged Monkeys]

I'm shocked this has gone so far so fast just because we had some drastic admin changes. I understand that everyone is upset over the unilateral decision making and all, but clearly Hile wanted to begin moving forward with a better format of running the admin team. Staff meetings, tasks and training. After all he has done here can't we all take a breath and look at this again?

 

As a community we should be able to figure this out without such a drastic change. Just yesterday Hile was still offering to host the forums, what happened to that?

 

We've worked so hard and come so far here in TSP, I'd hate to see this happen. We will be set back months if not more by the decisions we all make this week.

[Sandaoguo]

DM, we've all tried to convince Hileville to stay and keep hosting, but he's been very adamant that he no longer wants to do it.

[Sandaoguo]

I'm on phone, should be home in about an hour or so to discuss more.


I'd like an option where its a community ownership and easily transferrable.

There's no such thing as real community ownership. Multiple people can have root access l, and that can be transferred, but we can't extend that to everybody. The two options above are really the only viable options.

[Escade]

Right, I understand and that's what I mean that we have two people working as root admins. 

 

I'm on IRC right now and available to discuss.

[Sandaoguo]

FFS you guys, why haven't we presented the Assembly with these options yet? We are the EXECUTIVE of TSP. We are elected to make these types of fast decisions. It's an absolute failure on our part that we've let this go on for so long without even our small group reaching a damn consensus. Let's get out shit together!

[Kris Kringle]

You're right. Thank you for the wake up call. We really did need it.

 

If all the technical details that I honestly don't understand can be sorted out and we can do it reasonably fast, then I think QuietDad's option can be our best choice. We would avoid the transfer problems (since it's the same software, right?) and keep call current features (right?), and continuity is what we should be aiming for.

[Arbiter08]

I think that we should use QDs forum. The MyBB forum (as Sandaoguo said) doesn't have a very good importer. We would probably have importing problems if we chose MyBB.

[Escade]

GR, the reason I was waiting was I wanted to discuss with Hileville and I don't believe in rushing things out without thinking.  Given the chance, most people are reasonable.

 

<b>Engaging in the same type of behavior of rushing out a statement on day two would have meant not giving people a chance to think about their actions. </b>

 

If the technical people and we can discuss with him some time today (tsu will be available after 3pm or later afternoon) then we can get a statement out that does the following:

 

1. Provides a time frame for the move

2. Explains the best option briefly for the non-technical

3. Explains why an alternate proposed and considered is currently not the best option (BBoard, importer, etc) very briefly

4. Brings up for discussion the following

    1. Working on a viable Administration policy that has built in accountability 

    2. Working on a forum moderation policy that does not impinge on the rights on citizens

   3. Other issues that are related to this one (who will own or maintain the forums, etc.,)

 

 

Edit: GR or anyone, if you can help write the technical parts please do so. I think a short 3-4 sentences that explain very simply for people who don't know how boards\servers work would be useful.

[Sandaoguo]

First, sorry for the outburst. I'm just frustrated that we haven't shown any leadership on this issue.

 

I think that we should use QDs forum. The MyBB forum (as Sandaoguo said) doesn't have a very good importer. We would probably have importing problems if we chose MyBB.

 

Without having access to the database, it's hard to tell what will work and what won't. The developer of the importer said it shouldn't be used on live forums, though, so it's likely that an import wouldn't cover everything.

 

I agree with using QD's offer. However, a lot of people seem to not know what the actual offer is. This is the exact offer:

• QD would hand over the hosting account to whomever is chosen as root admin(s). The account is not his own personal one. He has no desire to be in charge of anything.
  
• The forum license would be QD's. But again, he has explicitly stated he doesn't want to be involved in running the forum.
  
• We would be able to import everything perfectly, since it's the same forum software.
  

So what we the Cabinet need to do is reach a consensus on the next root admin(s).

• People like Tsunamy, but he doesn't have the tech experience required to run a forum. So if Tsunamy is chosen, somebody needs to be there to help him out with that. I am willing to do that.
  
• Having multiple root administrators is possible.
  

We need to make this decision, because we were elected to make it. I know some of you are wary of not including the Assembly, but the fact is we've seen a rush of people into the forums because of this scandal, so the Assembly is going to have to grapple with a lot of vested interests who want a stake in the new forums. There are too many cooks in that kitchen. It's not the proper venue to create a plan. With the extra time Hileville has given us, we can present the Assembly with at least two options, and let them debate and vote on those. But we shouldn't hand over leadership to the Assembly altogether.

 

@Escade: I've <i>already</i> presented the options! The two options above are the only options we should be presenting. Either we accept QD's offer, or we roll out our own forums. The upsides and downsides have been included in that. I get that you don't want to "rush" things, but we've had a tendency before to get trapped in endless talking. It's very frustrating. Let's just make a decision.