Your opinion: Our admin team

[Punk D]

Today Hileville took some actions to remove the admin team. The reason there are forums are because we come to the forums to discuss our region. 

 

I believe no one person is above the region. I also believe that as an Assembly we should discuss what we think about Hileville's actions. At present there are cabinet and admin discussions ongoing. I believe this conversation should be Assembly members who are not cabinet or admins only. We are not so "charged" one way or the other but we are the affected. 

 

I have serious concerns with the process Hileville took and has taken in the past. It causes me to question whether Hileville can be trusted as admin. Maybe I don't have all the facts to reach this conclusion, but what I do have causes me to question his ability to maintain our trust as ROOT admin and never would I have thought that of Hileville. 

 

So what do you think we should do to resolve the matter? Do we wait for the cabinet and admins to reach some sort of compromise. Do we draft our own recommendation? Do we start our own forums? 

 

Let's discuss.

[Hileville]

I'm not remaining ROOT admin or owner of the forums.  I have urged several people to flush a forum move plan and let me know the details.

[UnitedSolarRepublic]

I personally don't know what to think of the situation. It's pretty screwy. I am terribly sad to see Hile go, he's been a very valuable member of our community. This seem like it could be resolved but no side is willing (Other than a couple of individuals who indicated they would be willing). I hope this can be over with quickly, and the transition fast and smooth. I really don't want to see anyone else getting pissed or leave.

[Punk D]

I personally don't know what to think of the situation. It's pretty screwy. I am terribly sad to see Hile go, he's been a very valuable member of our community. This seem like it could be resolved but no side is willing (Other than a couple of individuals who indicated they would be willing). I hope this can be over with quickly, and the transition fast and smooth. I really don't want to see anyone else getting pissed or leave.

 

That's probably my feeling too. Sadness. I hope there's a way through this...i'm not seeing it but I hope there's a way.

[Escade]

I'd just like to say that there are a lot of things that are up in the air right now.  So as soon as I know more about what is possible I will post. I actually don't know what exactly will happen and don't want to rush to judgement. 

 

Tempers and emotions are high and a good nights sleep can help people see things in a new light.

 

I just don't want people to panic or get upset. 

[Awesomiasa]

I think we need to base this discussion upon one principle. To illustrate this, I'd like to make use of the tagline of the Hong Kong SAR Public Consultation on Universal Suffrage, which is “一起說，一起聽，有商有量” ("Let's talk, let's listen, let's discuss and come up with a consensus") It is important for this issue to be discussed, yes, but also equally important is the need for the community, executive and administration to find a common understanding for a solution moving forward.

 

I rather not discuss to move forums or not to, but rather what the administrative team would need to have as qualities in general.

• Community engagement and consultation
  <ul><li>The forums are not owned by the admin team alone, but rather the whole community. As such, I propose that the community have a stake in the running of this site through the appointment of Community Advisers. Community Advisers are members elected by the community to participate in admin discussions, highlighting the needs and concerns of the community at large, and advises the admin team on how to implement measures to alleviate such concerns
  

</li>
[*]Transparency

• <li>The administrative team, should, as and when possible, from time to time publish a summary of what has been discussed, to keep the community informed and allow the community to voice their opinions if need be. For example, on the issue of the new Moderation policy, I'd have appreciated if the admin team actually opened up a consultation to the public on how the current rules are inadequate or could be further improved instead of saying "Here you go, new Mod policy. Don't like it, sucks to be you."
  

</li>
[*]Internal accountability and oversight

• <li>The admin team is run by the root admin, yes. But the other admins need to have a say in the admin team as well. Thus, I'd strongly urge the admin team to come up with a Charter of Governance of sorts, which outlines each admin's responsibilities, when IRC meetings amongst the team to iron out issues are scheduled, moderation punishment procedures, warning logs, procedures for addition and removal of admins etc
  

</li>
</ul>I believe that it is only through such measures being implemented that a more cohesive community and admin team be established. You're welcome to disagree with my opinion or otherwise.

[Punk D]

Awe, I think those are great points.

[QuietDad]

Being a Community, It's REAL simple to deal with forum administration. People are masked and given rule of their areas. Admins delete/lock threads after they start getting out of hand and warn people to knock it of.f.. The only thing a ROOT admin can do is blow up the board. This is the person who updates the board software. Depending how it's hosted anyone can make changes to a forum with the right permissions. The owner/root admin has the ability to see/change/delete EVERYTHING, while giving permission to  others to have the same ability or a subset of  it. I don't see why Elected officials don't get total control of their own sub forums and the "root" makes forum structure changes as requested. It's a community and it's that simple. The root admin can give more power to trusted individuals to help deal with tasks or crisis that WILL happen in a public forum,

 

The current admin "team" gets altered totally based on emotion (it seems). We have nations banned from the forum, but not the region and the other way around. Today somebody may be an admin, only to be kicked back to citizen status tomorrow just "because". You have Nations like Milograd, who couped the nation allowed in the chat room but not on the forums. PunkD passed a security check after being one of the main reasons TSP relations with TWP are non existant. Todd retains/loses/regains status while not really involved in TSP. Hileville ran for delegate in (Deleted/edit Just because people read what they want) another region and the list just goes on and on and on. And a core group of you belong to several regions where the same arguments take place in those regions too between the same people. 

 

Most of the IRC chat room including ops aren't even TSP residents and the secret/protected cabinet discussions that where voted on to be made public were addressed with "Ok, we'll publish whats no longer relevant". No subforum/posts ever came, but since it's procedure we don't have to talk about it.

 

Get your admin teams and government together and tell the people to behave or go away and bother another region. For the FIRST TIME I saw a thread locked today because it was getting personal. THAT'S WHAT ADMINS DO!!!!! The admins seem to do nothing but complain they have or dont have more permissions than someone else. Get over it.

[Letoilenoir]

The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made.

 

What Quiet Dad said

 

The IT team does not appoint the Director of an organisation, or its Sales manager, but rather provides it with the tools and access permissions to carry out their functions,

 

Similarly the Civil Service does not appoint the Government but rather provides and maintains the infrastructure for that governance to be executed - if the President decides that the Foreign Secretary  should be given total control over say the CIA files and then the Admin should grant the necessary permissions, unless there is a constitutional reason for this not to happen - if this is the case then the instruction should be challenge.

 

Similarly the removal of permissions should, ordinarily be subject to the decision of the Executive.

 

However there is also a case that the Admin does have an implied responsibility to ensure that the integrity of the system is not compromised, and this may be the driver behind the recent action .

 

It may be that in order to preserve the continuity of any sub-forum and to preserve that which has gone before that any new no root Admin is only given read only acess to the legacy data and has active permissions on a version of that subforum, or that any records prior to their appointment are backed up ans archived to prevent retrospective editing

 

Ultimately it comes down to trust - who do we trust as Root, who do we trust to be given Admin permissions and whether our trust is reciprocated by both Root and Admins alike

[Lord Ravenclaw]

@QD- Please keep Osiris out of this. It has no bearing to this discussion.

[QuietDad]

@Raven. I did NOT make the reference to what Osiris is doing or imply there is an issue. As in all things TSP, READ IT AGAIN. The reference is about what someone in TSP is doing.

[tsunamy]

@QD- Please keep Osiris out of this. It has no bearing to this discussion.

 

Yeah -- I believe QD's point is that the NS world is spilling into TSP. So it's not about Osiris per se, but about how arguments simply take different forums via different regions, but often have similar break downs since the participants are often the same.

[Punk D]

Quiet Dad - what are you advocating be done in our present situation? I understand you have some objections to arguments amongst the same people in different regions, but I am not clear what you want in this particular situation from your posts.

[UnitedSolarRepublic]

I'd like a clarification on something: In light of recent events, the elections are going to be held as scheduled, yes? 

[tsunamy]

I'd like a clarification on something: In light of recent events, the elections are going to be held as scheduled, yes? 

 

At this risk of tossing this to elected officials, I think this is a question Es and Kris need to decide.

[Punk D]

Not sure why they wouldn't be on schedule. This is an admin shakeup, not a government shakeup.

[QuietDad]

Quiet Dad - what are you advocating be done in our present situation? I understand you have some objections to arguments amongst the same people in different regions, but I am not clear what you want in this particular situation from your posts.

What I would like done is for everyone to grow up. This is Nation States. People can have many nations in many nations and RP different personas in them and the ONLY way anyone knows is if they tell you. This is Hileville's sandbox at the moment, You either play by his rules, convince him to change the rules or move to another sandbox. Those are the ONLY options available. Period.

[tsunamy]

Not sure why they wouldn't be on schedule. This is an admin shakeup, not a government shakeup.

 

Well if the forums are in transition it might be difficult to hold them. Hence the crux this whole situation.

[Belschaft]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Punk D" data-cid="121627" data-time="1395504648">
<div>
Not sure why they wouldn't be on schedule. This is an admin shakeup, not a government shakeup.

 

Well if the forums are in transition it might be difficult to hold them. Hence the crux this whole situation.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
Indeed; Hileville has made it clear that he is no longer willing to host these forums, so we are going to have to move. There is less than two weeks to the next set of elections, so there is some question as to whether or not we'll have completed it.

[QuietDad]

You all have available http://tsp.pcriot.com/. It's a fresh install of the same IPBoard that we're running here. I have NO desire to be involved with content control but will provide any help/access necessary if you so desire to move there. forums.thesouthpacific.org/ is owned by Hileville and I can give him the DNS info to point to it IF HE WISHES. Being it's the same software, one just needs to backup the old database and drop it here. It may not probably doesn't) have some of the add ons Hileville has added and Hileville can address that issue. I know the players and will give whatever permissions necessary to the appropriate people without question. 

[Escade]

QuietDad, I would love to discuss more with you and the rest of people about this option.  I'll be on IRC tonight and welcome everyone to join in if the situation is that the forums will be moved. 

 

At this point we are also open to discussion of root admins in case of a forum change. My strong belief is that Glen-Rhodes or Tsunamy (if they are willing) would be excellent people, with the technical knowledge, to serve as such. This is of course a discussion that we will need to have once the forum move is 100% certain.

 

As for elections, I don't see what they shouldn't run as scheduled. If there is some extreme situation in which they cannot be held, we should know in a few days and work out a solution.  


Happy Saturday!

 

[Belschaft]

Tsunamy is the obvious candidate as he's been a TSP forum admin for the last ten years, and was root admin before we moved to these forums.

 

Glen has excellent and invaluable technical skills, but has only been an admin here for two days.

[Horse]

Thanks QuietDad ^_^ 

[Vibrant Coconuts]

Before we start nominating people to be the next root admin, don't we need to have some kind of discussion of how the forum admin role overlaps with the constitutionally defined government role of TSP? I mean, that has been one of the issues here, and before now too, and while I'm sure all those being nominated will be perfectly capable in the short term, there's no point setting up a new forum administration and then down the road once more having a conflict between the supremacy of the root admin and the theoretical limits of TSP's Charter.

[Sandaoguo]

That's a discussion we should have, but we won't solve it by Monday at noon when Hileville shuts down the forums. The admin team and the elected Cabinet are currently discussing where will host a forum and who will the root admin(s).