Osiris couped by Invaders

[Unibot]

If someone had sent us a diplomatic letter when Milograd couped us and it had read:
 
The Cabinet is committed to improving relations with The South Pacific upon the establishment of a Constitution.  We stand with the people of Osiris during these trying times.  The Cabinet officially recognizes the ongoing conflict as an internal matter and wish the region the best of luck at a speedy resolution.  We look forward to seeing The South Pacific rebuild itself in the image that it desires, one where the community feels secure, engaged, and satisfied with the course taken.


 
I would have been pissed off because the last sentence would have hinted at the fact that the writer wanted to see Milo's Communist Vision enacted. Optimism and feel good feelings aside, that's why I'm skeptical of the Cabinet's statement and put off by it. I think they've chosen a side and they don't want to tell us that fact outright because they know it would be unpopular.

[Southern Bellz]

Literally not a single person believes your insane conclusions from the statement.


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[Escade]

Unibot, who or what is the true legitimate government of Osiris? This one, the one deposed recently, or the one deposed before that? Or perhaps the next 14 that will be taking over after enough updates have passed?

 

I think that if you read between the lines then the statement says exactly what I meant it to.  We have been promised elections.  Let's give them a chance to hold elections. If they do not hold elections then we can discuss then.

 

There is no use speculating on the unknown when almost everything at this point is unknown.

 

As for the Milograd coup, the comparison is invalid. See my first question in this post to figure out why.

[Southern Bellz]

Literally not a single person believes your insane conclusions from the statement.


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I should be clear, as far as your, hypothetical thought process for the cabinet.


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[Kris Kringle]

Unibot, not everything is done to please or appease TNI. If we just said that we aren't taking sides until we ascertain how the situation evolves, then you can take our word that we won't take sides until we are satisfied that Osiris is truly democratic and stable. I honestly don't know how to interpret that statement in any other way. There are no hidden meanings here, so don't try to make them up. Further, I'm honestly puzzled at how you can compare the political stability of the South Pacific before Milograd's coup to the political stability of Osiris during this past year.

[Unibot]

As for the Milograd coup, the comparison is invalid. See my first question in this post to figure out why.

Both sides believe they are legitimate -- your wording does not explictly say that TSP thinks neither is legitimate, so it's read the same way as if it were talking about any old internal conflict. That's one problem with being extremely vague.

There isn't a legitimate government in Osiris and it's unlikely we'll see one in the near future. There probably isn't going to be elections any time soon. Dali's elections will be ignored by almost everyone. The statement ignores reality and in its optimism places TSP way closer to the BoM government than it probably should be.

So stop playing around: if you think TSP should get into bed with BoM, say it here, if you don't think it should, say that. But don't hedge your bets and tell me nothing at all, that's an insult to me and it's an insult to your fellow TSPers.

Southern Bellz: thank you for calling me insane, once again. Lovely to have you back in fine form. I do miss being told how insane I am.

[Unibot]

There are no hidden meanings here, so don't try to make them up. Further, I'm honestly puzzled at how you can compare the political stability of the South Pacific before Milograd's coup to the political stability of Osiris during this past year.

The situations are only comparable because of how unspecific the Cabinet's statement is; what I was trying to show was that your well intended optimism would probably be taken a spit in the face to one side and a bone to the other side.. so your statement isn't neutral, in fact it's leaning towards one side.

 

This is another reason why statements should be drafted by the region, not the Cabinet. It's never made any sense why we do so much Behind Closed Doors -- five people are bound to not be able to please the region most of the time and it makes no sense to have public officials who were elected in cabinet positions unrelated to foreign affairs to be commenting on the drafting of statements before the rest of the region (who also weren't elected to run our Foreign Affairs). 

[Kris Kringle]

Then please do say what would you have us do. Support the BoM? Support Biyah, Dali & co? Tell me, because I honestly don't get where you are going with this.

 

 

So stop playing around: if you think TSP should get into bed with BoM, say it here, if you don't think it should, say that. But don't hedge your bets and tell me nothing at all, that's an insult to me and it's an insult to your fellow TSPers.


Southern Bellz: thank you for calling me insane, once again. Lovely to have you back in fine form. I do miss being told how insane I am.

 

You've been told that we are neither supporting nor condeming the BoM. We will assess the situation to see where it goes, and based on that we might reevaluate our relationship with Osiris. There is no need to further entangle us in a situation that will do us more damage than good. Also, don't twist that Southern Bellz is saying. He didn't call you insane. He called your conclusions insane. Let's not begin altering facts for the sake of arguments.

[Southern Bellz]

I don't know what to tell you buddy. Our statement matches more or less what you were advocating TSP to do.


Somehow you want to conclude that our statement means we want to go to bed with BoM, there is no other word for that. Read it again. There is not a word of support for them.


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[Southern Bellz]

Also I didn't insult your mental health. I shouldn't even have to type this, but if you're going to try to play the victim card and paint me as a 'bully' I wont stand for it.


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[Unibot]

Then please do say what would you have us do. Support the BoM? Support Biyah, Dali & co? Tell me, because I honestly don't get where you are going with this.

 

1. Express concern with the situation.

2. Support neither side.

3. Say that TSP's policy on Osiris stands. 

4. Nothing else.

 

Your statement went all over the place, especially when it said that we encouraged "Osiris" to do what "satisfies" it. Which Osiris? The Ejected Osiris or The Fraternal Osiris? It's a fractured community caught in what is going to be a very bloody war and your statement could have been written about any region. It's tone was inappropriate for the gravity of the situation. 

[Escade]

When I say Osiris I mean the region's active residents.  As for the gravity of the situation, it is similar to the story of the boy who cried wolf.

[Rebel-topia]

You cant argue that the cabinets statement is wrong, then tell them to say exactly what the cabinet statement said! Its a bit vague, but it says what it says, and shouldnt be read into to support your side of the argument, when, in fact, it states we're not taking sides.

[Escade]

The six people who work behind closed doors were elected by the region (those willing to participate) to represent them.

 

In my role I have been listening to the region discussing Osiris whether on IRC or the RMB. Or the forums, such as this thread here.

 

In fact, I thought my statement in being neutral was exactly what most people on this thread were advocating. We don't have enough information or future knowledge to make any other kind of statement.

 

We don't have the military numbers to take aggressive stances. We just don't. In fact, I'd like to start a new thread (now that the statement has been sent out already. If you have any concerns please do post them here in a succinct version without reiterating the same statement over and over again) is how to rebuild our defense and military.

[Hileville]

As a note of clarification there are 6 members of the Cabinet.

 

The statement released was drafted by Kris, Escade, and I and then edited by Awe and some suggestions were taken by GR.  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs stands 1000% behind this statement.

 

As one of the writers I can assure you there is no hidden message that exists.

[Sierra Lobo]

I support the current communique made by TSP's incoming cabinet.

 

Rush judgement is not prudent when we do not even know who/what is the legitimate government in Osiris. There is nothing in the current situation that requires immediate international relief. What is clear is a squabble between two faction within osiris, we do not see a massive purge on the natives of Osiris as we have come to expect of the recent coups.

 

The best solutions must come from within the region namely Osiris and not through the dictates of a foreign power. The worst that TSP can do is jump the gun and run its mouth and do more damage to our future foreign interest.

[Cassius]

Seems to me that Unibot is the only one who actually has a problem with the statement, perhaps because it's not exactly what he personally wanted you all to say.

[Unibot]

Seems to me that Unibot is the only one who actually has a problem with the statement, perhaps because it's not exactly what he personally wanted you all to say.

 

Good to know the UIAF's opinion on this - thanks.

 

Fine, thanks Escade and Hileville for the explanation, but I can't imagine how six of you thought that this statement was neutral when it was never explictly said during the whole bloody statement that Osiris wasn't taking a side and was neutral in regards to the conflict. You did everything but say that.

 

If you thought TSP wanted to be neutral and not get involved on either side (which I think is what TSP wants and I know it's what I want to see happen) .. then it would have been a good idea to have written a statement saying that.. not trying to casually imply it.

[Kris Kringle]

I don't know Unibot. The statement clearly says that we will evaluate the situation as it unfolds and expect a constitution that will provide for a democratic and stable Osiris. I'm not sure what kind of wording did you expect.

[Unibot]

I don't know Unibot. The statement clearly says that we will evaluate the situation as it unfolds and expect a constitution that will provide for a democratic and stable Osiris. I'm not sure what kind of wording did you expect.

 

The statement avoids making any comment on TSP's opinion on Osiris now, by making a comment on TSP's opinion on a potential future Osiris. 

 

Yes, we can all agree that if in the far future, Osiris changes from its current state of a hellhole, then TSP's opinion will change on Osiris.

 

But that doesn't get at TSP's opinion on Osiris right now. First, talking about the future implies there is a future for the BoM-led Osiris. Second, what TSP's opinion of Osiris right now is generally what people wanted to know when they read a statement titled, "in regards to the events occurring in Osiris". Your statement should have read, "in regards to the events that may occur in Osiris". 

[QuietDad]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Kris Kringle" data-cid="111067" data-time="1386894889">
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I don't know Unibot. The statement clearly says that we will evaluate the situation as it unfolds and expect a constitution that will provide for a democratic and stable Osiris. I'm not sure what kind of wording did you expect.

 

The statement avoids making any comment on TSP's opinion on Osiris now, by making a comment on TSP's opinion on a potential future Osiris. 

 

Yes, we can all agree that if in the far future, Osiris changes from its current state of a hellhole, then TSP's opinion will change on Osiris.

 

But that doesn't get at TSP's opinion on Osiris right now. First, talking about the future implies there is a future for the BoM-led Osiris. Second, what TSP's opinion of Osiris right now is generally what people wanted to know when they read a statement titled, "in regards to the events occurring in Osiris". Your statement should have read, "in regards to the events that may occur in Osiris". 

 

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</blockquote>
 

The Cabinet officially recognizes the ongoing conflict as an internal matter and wish the region the best of luck at a speedy resolution.

Kind of explains what we're doing right now to me....

[Southern Bellz]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cassius" data-cid="111062" data-time="1386892436">
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Seems to me that Unibot is the only one who actually has a problem with the statement, perhaps because it's not exactly what he personally wanted you all to say.

 

Good to know the UIAF's opinion on this - thanks.

 

 

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Didn't you just complain last week about how you hate when people say you represent the UDL and how TSP isn't a 'welcoming place' any more.  How is this any different?

[Unibot]

 

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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cassius" data-cid="111062" data-time="1386892436">
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Seems to me that Unibot is the only one who actually has a problem with the statement, perhaps because it's not exactly what he personally wanted you all to say.

 

Good to know the UIAF's opinion on this - thanks.

 

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

Didn't you just complain last week about how you hate when people say you represent the UDL and how TSP isn't a 'welcoming place' any more.  How is this any different?

 

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Because UIAF actually does have a history of sending people to regions to use them as passive-aggressive mouthpieces. NES got caught claiming they "owned" Lazarus and Balder. Do you really think they're not worried they're "losing" The South Pacific. We should have never made the mistake of letting them gain a foothold on us in the first place.

[Hileville]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Southern Bellz" data-cid="111071" data-time="1386898529">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unibot" data-cid="111066" data-time="1386894584">
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<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Cassius" data-cid="111062" data-time="1386892436">
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Seems to me that Unibot is the only one who actually has a problem with the statement, perhaps because it's not exactly what he personally wanted you all to say.

 

Good to know the UIAF's opinion on this - thanks.

 

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

Didn't you just complain last week about how you hate when people say you represent the UDL and how TSP isn't a 'welcoming place' any more.  How is this any different?

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

Because UIAF actually does have a history of sending people to regions to use them as passive-aggressive mouthpieces. NES got caught claiming they "owned" Lazarus and Balder. Do you really think they're not worried they're "losing" The South Pacific. We should have never made the mistake of letting them gain a foothold on us in the first place.

 

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</blockquote>
 

Firstly, lets not attack other citizens on their beliefs.  I don't tolerate that when people do it to you and I won't tolerate when you do it to others.

 

Secondly, TNI never had a "foothold" on us.  We have a Treaty with TNI but neither of us control the other.  

[Lord Ravenclaw]

Actually Uni, they're enjoying watching you rant and rave about them all the time. For that matter, so am I. It's highly entertaining. I've been in contact with a few of my counterparts in the Euro/Imperial-sphere and we come to the same conclusion.

 

All I can say is that TSP will treat you how you deserve to be treated if you continue to annoy them with rash and utterly hogwash rants about TNI etc et al.