Osiris Coup

[Kris Kringle]

We are not about to damage even more our already shaky relationship with Osiris. Like I've said before, any public statement should include (1) concern over the continue instability in Osiris (2) assurance that we will keep open channels of communication with the OFO to assess the situation as it evolves (3) our commitment to a democratic and stable Osiris.
Like Hileville said you will all read Venico's answers from the logs, and then we should make a final decision, which should not isolate us from Osiris. The more we antagonize them the more we can't influence the outcome of their situation.

[Hileville]

[22:09] <@Escade> Venico, how is the lovely region of Osiris doing?  And pretend you are telling someone who knows little about anything but somehow was elected to be delegate of the south pacific based on my pretty hair alone
[22:09] <@Venico> Lol
[22:10] <@Venico> Well Osiris has been abused by a group recently, a group that has a chronic issue of abusing GCRs to meet their own needs. Every Pharaoh has had issues with them and has been threatened by them.
[22:11] <@Venico> All of them have tried diplomatic means in order to pacify them but that only leaves them with the same power as before
[22:11] <@Escade> Ok
[22:12] <@Venico> So, being tired of watching my region being in this stupid stranglehold they had it under, with high influence nations
[22:12] <@Venico> administrators on the forums
[22:12] <@Venico> and in high government positions in every regime
[22:12] <@Venico> I decided to do what they have threatened me with too many times
[22:12] <@Venico> Go to war with them
[22:14] <@Hileville> As a note I have wittnessed this threat of war with just about every Delegate since Earth.
[22:15] <@Escade> What does go to war mean exactly? 
[22:15] <@Venico> Ban their nations, switch forums, deal with their resitance
[22:16] <@Venico> also establish a government structure that they aren't involved in
[22:16] <@Escade> Ok, what's the next step in this situation?
[22:16] <@Venico> Cormac has been working on a constitution for awhile and I want him to present it soon for people to critique
[22:16] <@Venico> My next step is dealing with diplomacy and dealing with resistance
[22:17] <@Venico> It seems that Mahaj and Diamete have joined the Empire in this
[22:17] <@Venico> So it's a waiting game for influence
[22:17] <@Escade> Mahaj is leader of the UDL and Diamete is?
[22:18] <@Hileville> a long time Osi member
[22:18] <@Venico> Diamete was on my Security Council
[22:18] <@Escade> Oh, okay.  
[22:18] <@Venico> As was the Empire and Lord Raven Claw
[22:19] <@Venico> Diamete and Raven have been seen as the two neutrals of Osiris for awhile
[22:19] <@Venico> yet they split on this :/

<div>[22:19] <@Escade> Raven is supporting you, though. 
[22:20] <@Escade> I like Raven, he's nice
[22:20] <@Kringalia> Intimidating, but nice
[22:20] <@Escade> ^
[22:21] <@Venico> he is nice and he's only intimidating in Foreign Affairs =P
[22:21] <@Kringalia> True
[22:21] <@Venico> And yes he is Escade what I meant was
[22:22] <@Venico> Diamete has gone one way and Raven has gone another
[22:22] <@Venico> 1-1 is a split =P
[22:24] <@Escade> Right, but I've never met Diamete whereas Raven is a good guy. So I'm happy that he trusts in you. 
[22:25] * @Venico nods
[22:25] <@Venico> I've kept him as my Foreign Affairs guy
[22:25] <@Venico> He's quite good and I trust his opinion
[22:29] <@Kringalia> One thing I'm curious about Venico, is what's the place of the BoM in all of this. Initially Osiris' WFE mentioned them controlling the region (not anymore though), so I'd like to hear what's their status now
[22:30] <@Venico> I said Managing because that was the best word at the time, I look back now and realize that was a poor choice
[22:30] <@Venico> It is leading the charge against the poison that is the Empire
[22:31] <@Venico> It has been the one working behind the scenes planning this, it has been the one working to pull on its connections to get foreign support
[22:32] <@Venico> BoM has no wish to stay in Osiris once this is over with
[22:32] <@Venico> We're just the warfare guys =P
[22:33] <@Hileville> So Kringle brought up one of the points the Cabinet was concerned about which leads into another one.
[22:33] <@Hileville> How long do you see the need for outside support?
[22:33] * @Venico rubs his stubble
[22:34] <@Venico> I was expecting Diamete to stay neutral, however his now supporting the opposite side is not too big except for influence cost
[22:34] <@Venico> It will take me ~16 more updates before I have enough to handle him and Mahaj
[22:35] <@Venico> After that, we'll see if there are any high influence nations that start throwing their lot in with Empire
[22:35] <@Venico> So at the minimum and best situation I see 8-10 days
[22:36] * @Hileville nods
[22:36] <@Venico> Although the nation Hajima has ~70 SPDR and is a bit worrying as they endoed NK pretty quickly :/
[22:36] <@Venico> but we'll deal with that situation if that arises
[22:38] <@Hileville> What makes this change in power different from the last ones?
[22:40] <@Venico> The power particularly isn't changing much to be honest, we're in the same boat that we were in after Asta dissolved the Book of the Dead 
[22:40] <@Venico> But we plan on moving forward, ending this war and going back to peace
[22:40] <@Venico> We plan on setting up a government that's communally agreed upon
[22:41] <@Venico> And honestly after this, I'm probably retiring to culture and not touching politics for awhile =P
[22:41] <@Venico> Osiris needed someone with the guts to face these guys head on, I've done my part in that regard
[22:44] <@Venico> And trust me, I wish I could do this without foreign support, but that would take months influence wise instead of us hoping to be back to the norm by Christmas
[22:45] <@Kringalia> Say you get to fully stabilise Osiris and that new constitution is approved. What kind of changes in terms of government structure should we expect, and how stable should we expect Osiris to be from now on?
[22:46] * @Venico chuckles
[22:46] <@Venico> Hopefully we wouldn't be the Coup Friendly GCR from now on =P
[22:47] <@Venico> But it would be very similar to the government structure Asta had already set up because don't forget that this constitution was made to fit her government

<div>[22:47] <@Escade> For someone who doesn't know the history of Osiris, what are you goals for the region moving forward?
[22:47] <@Venico> A community
[22:47] <@Venico> It's really that simple
[22:48] <@Venico> A community who doesn't get threatened, a community that doesn't get attacked, just a community that functions
[22:49] <@Escade> That seems very reasonable, I wouldn't be happy feeling constantly threatened. 
[22:53] <@Hileville> What was the reasoning of the anti-defender talk in the initial statements?
[22:55] <@Venico> Because most of the people who have been manipulating Osiris have been defenders. Now this isn't to say that defenders are bad and they will be thrown out, as we are accepting citizenship applications for them
[22:55] <@Venico> It's just the ones who have been manipulating Osiris
[22:58] <@Hileville> one more thing from me the ejections that have taken place (minus Biyah, Dali, and well Todd) was it because of their support of the Empire and co. or for other reasons?
[22:59] <@Venico> the ejections that have been occurring are new nations coming from other regions or refounds
[22:59] <@Venico> This is simply to keep the closed door policy, however if any nation TGs me their identity I will almost always let them in
[23:00] <@Hileville> Ok.  I think I have all I need for now.  Escade or Kringalia do you have anything else?
[23:01] <@Hileville> question wise that is
[23:01] <@Kringalia> So far I think we've got all covered
[23:01] <@Venico> The intention is to close the doors until we have everything sorted out then re open them, this is to keep out clean puppets of the Empire from coming in although lord knows they have enough in Osi with influence >.>
[23:01] <@Venico> Ok then
[23:01] <@Kringalia> Escade?
[23:02] <@Escade> Yes, I'm here.
[23:02] <@Kringalia> Any further questions you have?
[23:02] <@Escade> No, I think you guys have covered it.  Is there anything you want to add Venico? Something we should know or would help us understand better?
[23:03] <@Venico> I don't think so, I'm just tired and wishing for this all to be over with soon xD
[23:03] <@Venico> However if you guys ever have any questions feel free to ask me
[23:03] <@Kringalia> I'll keep that in mind
[23:04] * @Venico tips hat
</div>
</div>

[Southern Bellz]

Great job team. I think the latest statement draft is fine.


If they deliver on their promise, they might wind up with a working government, if they stay on their current path a month or so from now, it is unacceptable.


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[Hileville]

[spoiler]

Statement from the Cabinet of the South Pacific

in regards to the events occurring in Osiris

 
The Cabinet of the Coalition of the South Pacific is aware of and continues to monitor the ongoing situation in Osiris.  We would like to express our belief that Osiris holds an important place in inter-regional politics. It, like the rest of the GCRs, should promotes safe, happy, and active communities in all regions but particularly those with members who have spent considerable time and effort in building positive experiences for all their members.
 
The Cabinet is committed to improving relations with Osiris upon the establishment of a Constitution.  We stand with the people of Osiris during these trying times.  The Cabinet officially recognizes the ongoing conflict as an internal matter and wish the region the best of luck at a speedy resolution.  We look forward to seeing Osiris rebuild itself in the image that it desires, one where the community feels secure, engaged, and satisfied with the course taken.
 
Thank You,
The Cabinet of the South Pacific
[/spoiler]
Just to be clear you mean this statement, SB?

[Sandaoguo]

[quote name="Kris Kringle" post="110986" timestamp="1386871810"]We are not about to damage even more our already shaky relationship with Osiris. Like I've said before, any public statement should include (1) concern over the continue instability in Osiris (2) assurance that we will keep open channels of communication with the OFO to assess the situation as it evolves (3) our commitment to a democratic and stable Osiris.Like Hileville said you will all read Venico's answers from the logs, and then we should make a final decision, which should not isolate us from Osiris. The more we antagonize them the more we can't influence the outcome of their situation.[/quote]

I'm sorry Kris, but this is just really naive. We don't have a good relationship with Osiris because the government has been the product of a coup. Have you forgotten that? You were in the Cabinet when we made the decision.

That you place so much faith in a conversation with a couper is very disappointing. Of course he's going to say everything you want to hear. They all do. This is all just absurd. I'm sorry, but this really is a failure of leadership. You, Escade, Awe, and Hileville are supporting renewed relations simply for the purpose of renewing relations. There is no consideration of the broader and long-term impact of this decision. You guys are abandoning the principle of sovereignty, because it's difficult to stand up for the right thing when there's not a clear legitimate government to back.

If this statement is released, I will be releasing my own statement. I can't let myself be implicated in this policy failure, and Cabinet statements are assumed to be unanimous. This is a matter of first principles for me, otherwise I would respectfully stay quiet.

I hope this isn't interpreted as personal attacks. I simply disagree fundamentally with this decision.

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[Escade]

Glen, I'm going to try to be on IRC\Skype between 9pm and 12midnight (as consistently as I can be) today and tomorrow. I think if you look at the campaign that I ran on I am interested in friendship and cooperation as much as possible. This can be termed naivety or optimism.

 

We do not know how long the current regime will last or if tomorrow Osiris will have another coup or 14 more or if this one will at last bring stability. Is there a legitimate government in the region?

 

When you condemn someone you close off any chance of them working with you or hearing you out.  I would prefer to give regions a chance to work with us before taking sides. We may be able to influence them while talking to them.  Soft words always work better than harsh ones.

 

And finally, this is about the South Pacific. Not any other third parties. This statement is best for TSP.

 

If you read carefully we are making our concerns noted when we point out the emphasis on safe, happy communities.   There is no need to bludgeon someone over the head when a subtle indication will work better:

 

 

Slight edits:

 

 

The Cabinet of the Coalition of the South Pacific is aware of and continues to monitor the ongoing situation in Osiris.  We would like to express our belief that Osiris holds an important place in inter-regional politics. It, like the rest of the GCRs, should promote safe, happy, and active communities in all regions but particularly those where members who have spent considerable time and effort in building positive experiences for all their residents.

 

The Cabinet is committed to improving relations with Osiris upon the establishment of a Constitution.  We stand with the people of Osiris during these trying times.  The Cabinet officially recognizes the ongoing conflict as an internal matter and wish the region the best of luck at a speedy resolution.  We look forward to seeing Osiris rebuild itself in the image that it desires, one where the community feels secure, engaged, and satisfied with the course taken.

 

Thank You,
The Cabinet of the South Pacific

[Escade]

Finally, I expect TSP as a government to present a united front. We can discuss\argue as much behind closed doors but publicly we are going to have to present a united front.

 

You hold a position in TSP, in the government. A powerful position at that. If you want to go rogue publicly then you should reconsider you position in TSP.

[Hileville]

[spoiler=Statement w/ Escade's edits]

Statement from the Cabinet of the South Pacific

in regards to the events occurring in Osiris

 

The Cabinet of the Coalition of the South Pacific is aware of and continues to monitor the ongoing situation in Osiris.  We would like to express our belief that Osiris holds an important place in inter-regional politics. It, like the rest of the GCRs, should promote safe, happy, and active communities in all regions but particularly those where members who have spent considerable time and effort in building positive experiences for all their residents.

 

The Cabinet is committed to improving relations with Osiris upon the establishment of a Constitution.  We stand with the people of Osiris during these trying times.  The Cabinet officially recognizes the ongoing conflict as an internal matter and wish the region the best of luck at a speedy resolution.  We look forward to seeing Osiris rebuild itself in the image that it desires, one where the community feels secure, engaged, and satisfied with the course taken.

 

Thank You,
The Cabinet of the South Pacific[/spoiler]

 

So are we good on this one then?

[Kris Kringle]

Yes.

[Escade]

Yes, please release it.

 

It basically states what we need it to:

 

"should promote safe, happy, and active communities in all regions but particularly those where members who have spent considerable time and effort in building positive experiences for all their residents."

 

We'll monitor the situation and try our best to influence elections\etc.

[Hileville]

Okay I'm posting now.

[Southern Bellz]

If you start disowning/discrediting this cabinet in public, I will push for a recall.


It's one thing to clarify and explain how you feel, and you are entitled to post your opinions, but I will not stand for a cabinet member try to undermine Escade on her second day in office by directly opposing the government via official  government statements.


 

[Sandaoguo]

If you want to push for a recall because of my political beliefs, feel free to do so SB. I cannot stand by and let people assume this was a unanimous decision. I think it an absolute disgrace of a decision. I'm going to say so publicly, because this is a matter of first principles for me. I see this decision as a failure to uphold GCR sovereignty, and I want TSP and the Gameplay community as a whole to know where I stand. I'm not going to let the Cabinet bully me into staying quiet, which is what you guys are doing here. I respect all of you, but it is absolutely reasonable for me to stand up for what I believe in, and I'm not going to stop now just because you threaten to recall me.

[Hileville]

I am very disappointed in your statement. You were asked by Escade to to discuss this with her before going public with a dissenting opinion. The Cabinet MUST be on a united front. 5 out of 6 approved of this statement.

I formally request you resign. You have gone against every principle this Cabinet has by issuing your own statement. If you do not resign I will join SB in asking for a recall.

[Sandaoguo]

I do not plan on resigning my position, as stated in the Assembly forum.

[Escade]

What stuns me GR is that I asked you to discuss your concerns with me one-on-one. In Skype, or IRC, or any other one-on-one venue.  Why would you blatantly disregard this?