FFS

[karatengisa]

It's fine by me, I'm not trying to put more wood on fire. What's done it's done.

I just think we need legislation to prevent this sort of thing.





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[Southern Bellz]

Stop acting like you have a sense of humor and everyone else doesn't because your joke didn't get the yucks you wanted.

At the end of the day, no harm, no foul, but blaming the failure of this stunt on the region is ridiculous.

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[Awesomiasa]

I think legislation should be in place to allow the CSS (or another committee of rotating citizens, to ensure fairness and impartiality), to serve as a measure of checks and balances to the Cabinet, such that the Cabinet is more accountable to the people.

[Punk D]

The most important observation Bels made is the disconnect between the forum, IRC, and in-game areas. Things get dangerous when a disconnect exists between those spheres. 

 

If it's an IRC-Forum disconnect, not that big a deal and we get situations like this. If it's a forum-ingame disconnect we get coups. And that's been done before. 

 

In my opinion, Bels thought to try to do something to get activity going is fine. Where I have concerns is that it was something that originated in another region (TNP) that spilled over to another region (Osiris) and then through IRC it came to TSP. That tells you the power of IRC to sway the workings of TSP. 

 

I personally have no issue with the 'joke' and I haven't really gotten into the Flem God story. It's humorus but doesn't suit my game interests. Some people like it though, so meh.

 

But, how can we use this experience to do something better next time? Let's look at some of the positives. This thread is 3 pages long in just over/under a day. And on a weekend no less. That's great, right? 

[Kris Kringle]

Punk: In terms of raw activity it's great. In terms of political activism and citizen concern it's great. In terms of its contents and details its terrible. I don't think we ever want this kind of criticism on a government official, because it shows that something went wrong. Still, sometimes it's necessary.

--

I don't see the problem here as the Flemingovia thing anymore, but rather some portions of the Delegate's reaction to our opposition. I know he will probably say that by that "bloody luck" comment he meant that he would still promote activity despite some objections, but our objections are not about promoting activity itself and besides, he is the a government official that has years of experience, knows how regional politics work, and thus should act accordingly. Besides, he is the Head of State of this region but he is no Head of Government. That power corresponds to the Cabinet, so he might as well listen to its advise and that of the people we are here to serve.

[Loh]

You're all missing the main point. The real question here is: Did Bels chose purple because he wanted it to become the lead color of the coming fall/winter fashion trend? 

 

I was busy with RL these last days and couldn't check things here, but I wasn't much concerned nor worried that this could be a coup. Upon reading the word "Flemingovian", I understood it was a joke. True, the last events made TSPers look more carefully at anything that might ooze a fake or faint scent of a coup, so it's good to see that people readily reacted even if this was a joke.

 

However, the last events in TSP combined with the lack of information concerning this event and the things around it are exactly the main reasons some people judged this as a "coup". I really appreciate ways of boosting activity, but in this situation people cannot be truly blamed for not finding this much funny. 

[Escade]

I don't enjoy engaging in "point the blame" game any longer than necessary. Here are my conclusions about this situation:

 

1. Taking legal actions seems a bit ridiculous to me as from what I know of Bel, he cares very much about TSP and genuinely did not realize that some people might freak out over a faux coup. His initial reaction to crit was a bit sharp but might be tempered by now. However, I would like to suggest that delegates let the vd and cabinet know about big changes or planned activities as our role is to support the delegate and offer them second\third opinions.  We can coordinate to make this type of event fun.

 

For example, if we were doing an outlandish RP where rubber ducks were attacking TSP nations in order to steal our bubble soap (and bathtubs?) then some people could puppet\play the duck side and others the "save the bubble soap\bath tubs" and the WFE could have a some funny pictures\info. Stats even.  There might even be sympathy for some of the horrors rubber duckies are subjected to :p

 

2. The WFE is an awesome tool and can play a huge part in promoting regional activities.  We should think of how to make it work better. For example, the weekly RMB quiz thing with the WFE prize message.

 

3. TSPers like myself have no idea who Fleming- is or other such famous NSers and maybe we need a post somewhere that quickly runs by some NS history for us. 

[Belschaft]

As I said before, there has been no serious in-game reaction to this; more people there have expressed regret that the 'coup' is over than objection to it. There is a distinction between listening to criticism and accepting it without reservations, and in this case I - and for that matter a number of other people who have commented in this thread - simply disagree with the central argument that the region didn't get/like the joke. That position just isn't supported by observable reactions.

 

Now, did this go as I would have hoped? Obviously not. Do I think that the principle behind the idea is flawed? No. Execution could have been better, but then it was an impromptu event with an extremely limited amount of planning. The joke was most relevant to the IRC community, but seemed to transfer to the in-game one fairly well. It's to be expected that different aspects of TSP will have different dynamics and senses of humor, and that's something to take into account in the future. Another issue with IRC/Forum/Game events is to make sure all sections have adequate information; IRC and Game were largely informed, I should also have posted a thread on these forums as well restating the broad points in a sufficiently sarcastic manner to get the message across.

 

Changing the WFE remains the quickest and most effective way to get the region to sit up and take notice, and will be a key part of any future events. Long story short, people see that every time they log into NS and their nation. They are also more likely to read it than a TG.

 

Right now, to be quite frank, we have a serious activity problem. The cabinet cannot even find volunteers to serve as deputy ministers, never mind our hopes to rebuild the NSA and modernize the diplomatic corps and MoRA. I'm looking for and willing to try new and sometimes drastic methods to get people involved in TSP to a greater degree, and not all of them are going to work. Sometimes people may not like them, but the alternative to that is stagnation; keeping on trying the same old, standard methods isn't going to cut it - they're not working now, there is no reason to expect they will work in a months time.

[Mizay]

"Interactive roleplay" coup? One could argue that Carta's coup was something along the lines, and it did boost activity.  :blink:

 

Anyway, this seemed like an obvious joke to me and I found it amusing (I am aware of Flem's shenanigans). It's unfortunate the people were so quick to pounce on Bel for this and I think that the lack of trust in our delegate from certain members of the community is something that we as a community will have to take a look at. Bel has been in this region for years and has never once sought to harm the region, and if he were going to, he probably would've hopped on board with Milograd during April. You'll recall that he adamantly fought against it though. The reactions in this thread seem over-the-top and indicate a disconcerting mistrust of our leader.

 

I think that experimenting with this kind of concept might not hurt us and I think that people like it when we play with our theme a bit, but in the future I think that it would be smart to make sure that all parts of TSP are in sync on things. 

 

I am willing to be a deputy minister, by the way.

[HEM]

Anyway, this seemed like an obvious joke to me and I found it amusing (I am aware of Flem's shenanigans). It's unfortunate the people were so quick to pounce on Bel for this and I think that the lack of trust in our delegate from certain members of the community is something that we as a community will have to take a look at. Bel has been in this region for years and has never once sought to harm the region, and if he were going to, he probably would've hopped on board with Milograd during April. You'll recall that he adamantly fought against it though, so the point stands.

 

Milograd was in this region for years too. I'm not saying I don't agree with your overall point, but unfortunately we have grown cautious. 

[Mizay]

He never cared as much as Bel.

[Sandaoguo]

I am willing to be a deputy minister, by the way.

 

http://forums.thesouthpacific.org/topic/...uty-chair/ 

[Mizay]

Check your messages.  :wub:

[Punk D]

I unfortunately do not have time to be a dep minister, but I would agree there is an activity problem. 

 

I am of the opinion that the only way to address activity is internal strife (see: Today) or having an external target that the region can rally around. I have no idea where TSP lies on the defender/raider/vigilante scale. I don't know if TSP wants to be a leader within the WA. What I do know is that without a regional focus or regional strife activity is not sustainable. 

 

I don't find an issue with Bels decision to try something out and I believe we want leaders who will make decisions and take action versus the alternative. 

[Sandaoguo]

I am of the opinion that the only way to address activity is internal strife (see: Today) or having an external target that the region can rally around. I have no idea where TSP lies on the defender/raider/vigilante scale. I don't know if TSP wants to be a leader within the WA. What I do know is that without a regional focus or regional strife activity is not sustainable. 

 

If you're suggesting that TSP take a side in raiding or defending, you're going to upset the carefully constructed facade of GCR independence people have built up for the past two or three years. :O

[HEM]

 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Punk D" data-cid="105278" data-time="1378668677">
<div>
I am of the opinion that the only way to address activity is internal strife (see: Today) or having an external target that the region can rally around. I have no idea where TSP lies on the defender/raider/vigilante scale. I don't know if TSP wants to be a leader within the WA. What I do know is that without a regional focus or regional strife activity is not sustainable. 

 

If you're suggesting that TSP take a side in raiding or defending, you're going to upset the carefully constructed facade of GCR independence people have built up for the past two or three years. :o

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

If I were to fully respond to this malarky, it would derail this thread completely, but I will allow " :lol: " to suffice as a sufficient response.

 

In other news, I am kinda proud of how Bels put this assembly "debate" on the WFE. Shows some stones. 

[Kris Kringle]

What's FFS anyway? I can guess one of the F relates to Flemingovia but I can't figure out the other two letters.

[Punk D]

4 Poopy's Sake, Kris